This **** is getting scary
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,837
From: Wayne, NJ
Originally Posted by TYSON' post='917147' date='Feb 20 2009, 07:06 PM
A hell of a lot of people that bitch about the police turn a blind eye to dealers and dirtbags in their own neighbourhoods. Instead of buying bars for your windows do something about it.
Start blowing their heads off yourself and there would be no excuse for these bloated law enforcement departments everyone complains about.
Problem solved.
Start blowing their heads off yourself and there would be no excuse for these bloated law enforcement departments everyone complains about.
Problem solved.
realistically tho who's the real problem? the dealers or the buyers or the government? there are arguments for all sides.
kevin.
Thread Starter
Administrator
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 24,416
From: Stuart, FL
Originally Posted by TYSON' post='917147' date='Feb 20 2009, 07:06 PM
A hell of a lot of people that bitch about the police turn a blind eye to dealers and dirtbags in their own neighbourhoods. Instead of buying bars for your windows do something about it.
Start blowing their heads off yourself and there would be no excuse for these bloated law enforcement departments everyone complains about.
Problem solved.
Start blowing their heads off yourself and there would be no excuse for these bloated law enforcement departments everyone complains about.
Problem solved.
I don't understand your point. Are you saying that I should not expect any right to privacy because I'm not blowing away local drug dealers? Or that there should be no rights to citizen because there are drug dealers? I wasn't making a commentary on there being too many police I was making a commentary on there being no expectation of privacy within our homes which is a right granted to americans in the constitution.
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,837
From: Wayne, NJ
Originally Posted by TYSON' post='917189' date='Feb 21 2009, 06:59 PM
who cares? reducing policing would increase dealers and users, reducing dealers would reduce users and policing. and it's cheap.
reducing dealers wouldnt reduce users, it would simply make the users more willing to take chances to get their fix, making the policing more dangerous. it's a permanent catch22 as long as its illegal. once its legal you can actually monitor and control it, the same way as alcohol.
hell look at prohibition... got rid of "all the dealers" of alcohol...and what happened? more people then ever drank and their were crazy *** riots... my point stands
kevin.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,871
From: London, Ontario
prohibition was enforced by the police, not the people. How is legallizing crack and heroin REALLY going to reduce crime? Addicts will still need to steal to pay for it, it's not like they'll be able to hold down a high paying job now that they can buy it in a store. And if you try to limit their intake, whoops, here comes the illegal dealers back in the picture.
The question of the transaction between dealer and user being legal or not does not have any effect on the average citizen, it's the crime that comes from having to pay for the drugs that impacts on the rest of society. Of course 'crime' would drop, but the crime of possession or even the transaction does not effect the quality of life of society. However, I personally have no objection to walking down the street past a bar with a patio and seeing people sharing a pitcher of beer with their friends. I do it myself and I hope you do too. I don't want MY society to include the same setting only with a bunch of people sitting on the patio sharing a needle and a spoon.
If there wasn't the massive VIOLENT crime levels, there would be no need for the massive police forces. I would hope that if crime was reduced to a very low level BY THE PEOPLE, they would object to massive police budgets and would vote for those that plan to reduce those budgets and spend the money elsewhere. Dubya got elected the second time by telling everyone the boogeyman was behind every door and only he could protect them. That's just giving permission for the current behavior.
My point is it's funny to see all this jibber jabber about citizens arming themselves intending to fight the government and invading armies in the streets, but they turn a blind eye to the army of dirtbags ALREADY in the streets that indirectly control everything they do.
Phins wants to carry because he expects some piece of **** to try to rob him at any moment. That's pretty ******* sad, but unfortunately he has a point. Find another country in the so called "first world" were that is a valid concern of the people that live there. That's giving up control of your life to a heavy handed government, you've given up control to some crackhead out for a fix.
Baldy posted information about 'no knock raids'. It makes no mention of what those raids were on, it implys the police are somehow acting in a more reckless and jackbooted fashion now than in 1980. Bet they weren't kicking in the doors of too many meth labs in 1980. Bet you average pot distributor wasn't sitting on a crate of AK-47s behind that door in 1980 either.
The police have had to adjust the way they work, because crime has adjusted the way it works. If every second person on the street was a cop, dealers and users would be afraid to show their faces. Nobody wants that many cops on the street, but if the citizens on the street actually gave a **** about what was going on around them it would be much more effective. and cheaper.
The question of the transaction between dealer and user being legal or not does not have any effect on the average citizen, it's the crime that comes from having to pay for the drugs that impacts on the rest of society. Of course 'crime' would drop, but the crime of possession or even the transaction does not effect the quality of life of society. However, I personally have no objection to walking down the street past a bar with a patio and seeing people sharing a pitcher of beer with their friends. I do it myself and I hope you do too. I don't want MY society to include the same setting only with a bunch of people sitting on the patio sharing a needle and a spoon.
If there wasn't the massive VIOLENT crime levels, there would be no need for the massive police forces. I would hope that if crime was reduced to a very low level BY THE PEOPLE, they would object to massive police budgets and would vote for those that plan to reduce those budgets and spend the money elsewhere. Dubya got elected the second time by telling everyone the boogeyman was behind every door and only he could protect them. That's just giving permission for the current behavior.
My point is it's funny to see all this jibber jabber about citizens arming themselves intending to fight the government and invading armies in the streets, but they turn a blind eye to the army of dirtbags ALREADY in the streets that indirectly control everything they do.
Phins wants to carry because he expects some piece of **** to try to rob him at any moment. That's pretty ******* sad, but unfortunately he has a point. Find another country in the so called "first world" were that is a valid concern of the people that live there. That's giving up control of your life to a heavy handed government, you've given up control to some crackhead out for a fix.
Baldy posted information about 'no knock raids'. It makes no mention of what those raids were on, it implys the police are somehow acting in a more reckless and jackbooted fashion now than in 1980. Bet they weren't kicking in the doors of too many meth labs in 1980. Bet you average pot distributor wasn't sitting on a crate of AK-47s behind that door in 1980 either.
The police have had to adjust the way they work, because crime has adjusted the way it works. If every second person on the street was a cop, dealers and users would be afraid to show their faces. Nobody wants that many cops on the street, but if the citizens on the street actually gave a **** about what was going on around them it would be much more effective. and cheaper.
Thread Starter
Administrator
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 24,416
From: Stuart, FL
I can legally defend myself, I cannot legally shoot people I believe to be committing a criminal act. Furthermore my reason for carrying has little to nothing to do with drug dealers and everything to do with the fact that people are getting desperate, not to buy drugs, but to put food in their mouths. I don't agree with giving up my rights to put anyone in prison. Where does it end? The example of the guy's rights being violated in this very topic has absolutely nothing to do with drugs, it has to do with a bumper sticker. Which other rights given to me in the bill of rights should I give up to put "the bad guys away"? Should I give up the fifth and sixth? Avoiding that pesky judicial process would sure make it easier to put accused drug dealers away. When you throw one of them out the door to put "really bad guys" away, you pretty much throw them all away. Then it's just a matter of time before you are considered "a really bad guy".
The co-op raids are another great example, these people have nothing to do with drugs and yet their lives were destroyed because they posed a threat to a large corporate entity, Monsanto. My point is you can't pick and choose who's rights are violated, once we give the ok to tread on anyone's we give them the right to tread on everyone's. Just like the MTV video I posted in another topic, lets' keep in mind the first people to be hauled off to concentration camps were the Communists, the Jahova's Witnesses and the Free Masons and the Jews did nothing, in fact in many cases they breathed a sigh of relief and then one day it was them being hauled away.
The co-op raids are another great example, these people have nothing to do with drugs and yet their lives were destroyed because they posed a threat to a large corporate entity, Monsanto. My point is you can't pick and choose who's rights are violated, once we give the ok to tread on anyone's we give them the right to tread on everyone's. Just like the MTV video I posted in another topic, lets' keep in mind the first people to be hauled off to concentration camps were the Communists, the Jahova's Witnesses and the Free Masons and the Jews did nothing, in fact in many cases they breathed a sigh of relief and then one day it was them being hauled away.
Every American Is Now a Criminal!
You think you are a law abiding citizen, don’t you? Think again! You have been, you are now, and you will continue to break the law for the rest of your life, because there are too many laws, with millions more laws to follow. Many of these laws are totally unconstitutional but have never been challenged in the courts. Sometimes you break the law without any knowledge of it, even though ignorance of the law is not an excuse, if you are caught. But worse, millions are breaking the law because they are convinced the laws are illegal, or just plain stupid. With more people intentionally breaking the law, eventually the rule of law breaks down, as does our Republic.
The examples of stupid laws would fill volumes. Examples of conflicting laws would fill even more volumes. Some (or is it most) lawmakers just aren’t very smart.
Since the final draft of the U. S. Constitution became the Supreme Law of the Land, legislators have been legislating, that is they have been passing law ..... after law ..... after law. Do you want to know why you are a criminal? Here is why. “The U.S. Code, which contains all federal statutes, occupies 56,009 single-spaced pages. Its 47 volumes take up nine feet of shelf space. An annotated version, which attempts to bring order out of chaos, is three feet long and has 230 hardcover volumes and 36 paperback supplements. Administrative lawmaking under statutes fill up the 207-volume Code of Federal Regulations, which spans 21 feet of shelf space and contains more than 134,488 pages of regulatory law. … Federal law is further augmented by more than 2,756 volumes of judicial precedent, taking up 160 yards (almost twice as long as a football field) of law-library shelving.”
This is just federal law and it is growing by the second. All of this law does not include the millions of state, county and city laws that have been passed since we won our freedom in our first revolution. State and local laws are also growing by the second. The Obama/Pelosi/Reid Stimulus package was over 1,000 pages of more law that no one read and it included more taxes and much more socialism. More so-called “stimulus” packages are on the way, requiring trillions more of our dollars that the government doesn’t own and must “steal” from us, by force, to “fix” the problem that they themselves created.
Too many laws create competing special interests who lobby the system to entrench their own little worlds, while the un-represented (that’s millions of Americans) are left out in the cold. We have become a government of cronies, in a world run by cronyism, in an atmosphere of corruption, Hell bent on driving America and Americans into unabashed socialism and the one-world-order.
Too many laws create victims who inadvertently violate one or more laws and spend their life’s savings trying to defend themselves against an intransigent, all-powerful and abusive government. Too many laws lead to powerful, entitled special interests and the innocent victims are left with no political power at all.
Interestingly, America contains an almost ghostly, silent majority .... mostly silent and heard from rarely, but it does exist. Most of this group are trying to live out their lives as best they can, earn a living and raise their children in a country they thought was the land of the free. You know, a government they could trust, a government that protects the unalienable, individual rights as granted to us by our creator and codified into law by our constitution, and a government that operates within the enumerated powers allowed them by that very same constitution.
Unfortunately, in the silent majority’s silence, their government, without the silent majority’s consent, assumed powers that far exceeded their constitutional powers. They passed laws to pander to (or buy off) special interest groups, or to increase their political powers and then levied ever-increasing taxes to pay for it all. Even as the regulations rose exponentially and as taxes became more burdensome, the silent majority, to their discredit, still remained silent. Their silence, their apathy and their disinterest in what government has been and is doing, has unknowingly turned each and everyone of them into criminals ..... law breakers, who can be subject to fines and imprisonment for violating laws they know nothing about.
America was founded on the principles of a Constitutional Republic. That is, a system of government by the rule of law, with the Constitution as the foundation of all law. What the Founders failed to realize, or maybe they did but didn’t account for it, was that lawmakers have but one goal in life, that is the passing of laws. The lawmakers very rarely consider repealing laws, or remove conflicting laws, upon which clever attorneys can twist to fit a particular case, which they do all too often. The net result is we have become enslaved by the passage of too many laws and we became unintentional law breakers of those laws ..... thus perpetual criminals whom have yet to be caught.
As the silent majority watches our government use our tax money and our children’s tax money to increase their pandering and buying off of special interest groups, as government pours our hard-earned money into banks and businesses, as they prop up people who have acted irresponsibly with more of our money that we earned responsibly, they are increasing their power over us and increasing the laws that control us ..... laws eliminating our individual rights, gun rights, property rights, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, the sovereignty of states and the people under the 9th and 10th Amendments and equal protection under the law contained in the 14th Amendment. The 5th Amendment is all but null and void through the passing of draconian environmental regulation, along with government abuse of eminent domain.
However, the days of the silent majority being silent, must be over. Once we realize that, if the silent majority suddenly united as one in defiance of more laws and more of our money and our children’s money being stolen by the government, at the point of a gun, (just try not paying your taxes, even though Senator Harry Reid thinks our tax system is voluntary) to buy off banks, businesses and irresponsible individuals, we could turn America around in months. If the Consent of the Governed, that Silent Majority, "esplained" it to government to get out of the way, our economy would improve naturally, in a shorter period of time, based on sound economic and capitalistic principles, not government manipulated insanity.
So how does the American silent majority unite as one? It rallies around one simple idea or symbol and uses that idea or symbol as the rallying cry for freedom and liberty and the reduction of government power. In the coming weeks we will be releasing just such an idea, a symbol and some simple principles, around which the American Silent Majority can rally!
No, the war is hardly lost, it is just getting interesting, as more Americans of the silent majority, wake up to what their government has perpetrated upon them, over the last 80 to 100 years. They grow weary of too many laws that make them unintended criminals and angry with a government, at all levels, that has become helplessly and hopelessly out of control. It is way past time for the Silent Majority to cease being silent and return control to where it belongs ..... to the Consent of the Governed.
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/8674
You think you are a law abiding citizen, don’t you? Think again! You have been, you are now, and you will continue to break the law for the rest of your life, because there are too many laws, with millions more laws to follow. Many of these laws are totally unconstitutional but have never been challenged in the courts. Sometimes you break the law without any knowledge of it, even though ignorance of the law is not an excuse, if you are caught. But worse, millions are breaking the law because they are convinced the laws are illegal, or just plain stupid. With more people intentionally breaking the law, eventually the rule of law breaks down, as does our Republic.
The examples of stupid laws would fill volumes. Examples of conflicting laws would fill even more volumes. Some (or is it most) lawmakers just aren’t very smart.
Since the final draft of the U. S. Constitution became the Supreme Law of the Land, legislators have been legislating, that is they have been passing law ..... after law ..... after law. Do you want to know why you are a criminal? Here is why. “The U.S. Code, which contains all federal statutes, occupies 56,009 single-spaced pages. Its 47 volumes take up nine feet of shelf space. An annotated version, which attempts to bring order out of chaos, is three feet long and has 230 hardcover volumes and 36 paperback supplements. Administrative lawmaking under statutes fill up the 207-volume Code of Federal Regulations, which spans 21 feet of shelf space and contains more than 134,488 pages of regulatory law. … Federal law is further augmented by more than 2,756 volumes of judicial precedent, taking up 160 yards (almost twice as long as a football field) of law-library shelving.”
This is just federal law and it is growing by the second. All of this law does not include the millions of state, county and city laws that have been passed since we won our freedom in our first revolution. State and local laws are also growing by the second. The Obama/Pelosi/Reid Stimulus package was over 1,000 pages of more law that no one read and it included more taxes and much more socialism. More so-called “stimulus” packages are on the way, requiring trillions more of our dollars that the government doesn’t own and must “steal” from us, by force, to “fix” the problem that they themselves created.
Too many laws create competing special interests who lobby the system to entrench their own little worlds, while the un-represented (that’s millions of Americans) are left out in the cold. We have become a government of cronies, in a world run by cronyism, in an atmosphere of corruption, Hell bent on driving America and Americans into unabashed socialism and the one-world-order.
Too many laws create victims who inadvertently violate one or more laws and spend their life’s savings trying to defend themselves against an intransigent, all-powerful and abusive government. Too many laws lead to powerful, entitled special interests and the innocent victims are left with no political power at all.
Interestingly, America contains an almost ghostly, silent majority .... mostly silent and heard from rarely, but it does exist. Most of this group are trying to live out their lives as best they can, earn a living and raise their children in a country they thought was the land of the free. You know, a government they could trust, a government that protects the unalienable, individual rights as granted to us by our creator and codified into law by our constitution, and a government that operates within the enumerated powers allowed them by that very same constitution.
Unfortunately, in the silent majority’s silence, their government, without the silent majority’s consent, assumed powers that far exceeded their constitutional powers. They passed laws to pander to (or buy off) special interest groups, or to increase their political powers and then levied ever-increasing taxes to pay for it all. Even as the regulations rose exponentially and as taxes became more burdensome, the silent majority, to their discredit, still remained silent. Their silence, their apathy and their disinterest in what government has been and is doing, has unknowingly turned each and everyone of them into criminals ..... law breakers, who can be subject to fines and imprisonment for violating laws they know nothing about.
America was founded on the principles of a Constitutional Republic. That is, a system of government by the rule of law, with the Constitution as the foundation of all law. What the Founders failed to realize, or maybe they did but didn’t account for it, was that lawmakers have but one goal in life, that is the passing of laws. The lawmakers very rarely consider repealing laws, or remove conflicting laws, upon which clever attorneys can twist to fit a particular case, which they do all too often. The net result is we have become enslaved by the passage of too many laws and we became unintentional law breakers of those laws ..... thus perpetual criminals whom have yet to be caught.
As the silent majority watches our government use our tax money and our children’s tax money to increase their pandering and buying off of special interest groups, as government pours our hard-earned money into banks and businesses, as they prop up people who have acted irresponsibly with more of our money that we earned responsibly, they are increasing their power over us and increasing the laws that control us ..... laws eliminating our individual rights, gun rights, property rights, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, the sovereignty of states and the people under the 9th and 10th Amendments and equal protection under the law contained in the 14th Amendment. The 5th Amendment is all but null and void through the passing of draconian environmental regulation, along with government abuse of eminent domain.
However, the days of the silent majority being silent, must be over. Once we realize that, if the silent majority suddenly united as one in defiance of more laws and more of our money and our children’s money being stolen by the government, at the point of a gun, (just try not paying your taxes, even though Senator Harry Reid thinks our tax system is voluntary) to buy off banks, businesses and irresponsible individuals, we could turn America around in months. If the Consent of the Governed, that Silent Majority, "esplained" it to government to get out of the way, our economy would improve naturally, in a shorter period of time, based on sound economic and capitalistic principles, not government manipulated insanity.
So how does the American silent majority unite as one? It rallies around one simple idea or symbol and uses that idea or symbol as the rallying cry for freedom and liberty and the reduction of government power. In the coming weeks we will be releasing just such an idea, a symbol and some simple principles, around which the American Silent Majority can rally!
No, the war is hardly lost, it is just getting interesting, as more Americans of the silent majority, wake up to what their government has perpetrated upon them, over the last 80 to 100 years. They grow weary of too many laws that make them unintended criminals and angry with a government, at all levels, that has become helplessly and hopelessly out of control. It is way past time for the Silent Majority to cease being silent and return control to where it belongs ..... to the Consent of the Governed.
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/8674
Thread Starter
Administrator
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 24,416
From: Stuart, FL
I'm quite sure Tyson that there are rights in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms that you would miss dearly, are you ready and willing to give all of them up to catch drug dealers?
Since this section deals specifically with your point, let's axe this whole section so we can put away drug dealers. Who determines who these rights do and don't apply to? Why are they granted to some and not to others? Where in the Bill of rights or in the Canadian Charter does it grant any exception to these rights? I see no provision in either document that states the rights can be ignored when the circumstances permit and that these "circumstances" are able to determined by a local police officer in the field on an as needed basis. What I really don't understand is why we need the judicial system at all, if the police officers are well enough versed to make search and seizure decisions then why have the judicial system, why not stream line it, cops decide the house should be searched, they do so, they then determine the crime in the field, let's say they find drugs, it has a mandatory 25 year sentence, they issue the sentence and take the guy strait to jail. Millions of dollars are saved and pretty soon we'll all be in jail. Prohibition is a great example, it made the entire US criminals for all practical purposes, the law was rediculous and everyone ignored it what happens if tomorrow something you do every day in side your home becomes illegal, what happens when you become the "really bad guy" will you be ok with being hauled away, sans the warrant, sans the trial by jury?
Canadian Charter of Rights
Legal rights: rights of people in dealing with the justice system and law enforcement, namely:
Section 7: right to life, liberty, and security of the person.
Section 8: right from unreasonable search and seizure.
Section 9: freedom from arbitrary detainment or imprisonment.
Section 10: The right to legal counsel and the guarantee of habeas corpus.
Section 11: rights in criminal and penal matters such as the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty.
Section 12: Right not to be subject to cruel and unusual punishment.
Section 13: rights against self-incrimination
Section 14: rights to an interpreter in a court proceeding.
Since this section deals specifically with your point, let's axe this whole section so we can put away drug dealers. Who determines who these rights do and don't apply to? Why are they granted to some and not to others? Where in the Bill of rights or in the Canadian Charter does it grant any exception to these rights? I see no provision in either document that states the rights can be ignored when the circumstances permit and that these "circumstances" are able to determined by a local police officer in the field on an as needed basis. What I really don't understand is why we need the judicial system at all, if the police officers are well enough versed to make search and seizure decisions then why have the judicial system, why not stream line it, cops decide the house should be searched, they do so, they then determine the crime in the field, let's say they find drugs, it has a mandatory 25 year sentence, they issue the sentence and take the guy strait to jail. Millions of dollars are saved and pretty soon we'll all be in jail. Prohibition is a great example, it made the entire US criminals for all practical purposes, the law was rediculous and everyone ignored it what happens if tomorrow something you do every day in side your home becomes illegal, what happens when you become the "really bad guy" will you be ok with being hauled away, sans the warrant, sans the trial by jury?
Canadian Charter of Rights
Legal rights: rights of people in dealing with the justice system and law enforcement, namely:
Section 7: right to life, liberty, and security of the person.
Section 8: right from unreasonable search and seizure.
Section 9: freedom from arbitrary detainment or imprisonment.
Section 10: The right to legal counsel and the guarantee of habeas corpus.
Section 11: rights in criminal and penal matters such as the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty.
Section 12: Right not to be subject to cruel and unusual punishment.
Section 13: rights against self-incrimination
Section 14: rights to an interpreter in a court proceeding.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,871
From: London, Ontario
you didn't catch my point at all.
You still expect the police to do everything for you, as most people do. But you don't want them to do anything TO you, but to somehow investigate, prevent and prosecute crime without you noticing they are there and without your assistance.
I really have no idea how many of these events actually happen down there. But you are talking about a country with the highest population in the 'developed' world, as well as the highest violent crime rate and more guns than any army outside of Russia, China or North Korea. I'm impressed it doesn't happen every day of the week.
Oversized police forces with overzealous individuals are bound to happen, especially when they have been DIRECTED to behave this way from the highest level of government for nearly a decade. What qualifications and training does the average local cop have? Don't smaller towns ELECT their sherriff who then hires his retarded cousin as a deputy because he can't hold down a job? The 2004 federal election was won based entirely on fear mongering, the population gave the directive that they approved of this.
SOCIETY must be somewhat able to police itself, we agreed to the basic laws that we follow, yet we don't care to hold ourselves or others to those laws. If people actually gave a ****, as I said already, these massive police forces with their own agendas would not be able to justify their existence at all.
Wouldn't the Oklahoma City law enforcement forces be a touch paranoid still? I would think they didn't like having their office building blown up when all it would have taken was a random traffic stop to prevent it.
You still expect the police to do everything for you, as most people do. But you don't want them to do anything TO you, but to somehow investigate, prevent and prosecute crime without you noticing they are there and without your assistance.
I really have no idea how many of these events actually happen down there. But you are talking about a country with the highest population in the 'developed' world, as well as the highest violent crime rate and more guns than any army outside of Russia, China or North Korea. I'm impressed it doesn't happen every day of the week.
Oversized police forces with overzealous individuals are bound to happen, especially when they have been DIRECTED to behave this way from the highest level of government for nearly a decade. What qualifications and training does the average local cop have? Don't smaller towns ELECT their sherriff who then hires his retarded cousin as a deputy because he can't hold down a job? The 2004 federal election was won based entirely on fear mongering, the population gave the directive that they approved of this.
SOCIETY must be somewhat able to police itself, we agreed to the basic laws that we follow, yet we don't care to hold ourselves or others to those laws. If people actually gave a ****, as I said already, these massive police forces with their own agendas would not be able to justify their existence at all.
Wouldn't the Oklahoma City law enforcement forces be a touch paranoid still? I would think they didn't like having their office building blown up when all it would have taken was a random traffic stop to prevent it.
Super Moderator
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 5,425
From: Tallahassee, FL
Originally Posted by teknics' post='917207' date='Feb 22 2009, 11:29 AM
hell look at prohibition... got rid of "all the dealers" of alcohol...and what happened? more people then ever drank and their were crazy *** riots... my point stands 
.
kevin.
kevin.