The power in new cars is getting crazy, Impalas with 300hp, Envoys or whatever with 400hp



these are normal everyday boring cars, makes me think twice about bothering with these clunkers pushing themselves to get 400hp in a car that will basically lose all its creature comforts and not be very pleasant to drive https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683358.gif https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683358.gif





sigh

take em to the twisties....

lets think real life here



even so, sport SEDANS these days are handling pretty good for stock suspensions and tire/rim packages

Makes you think that the government fuel economy regulations are obviously too easy.



Chrysler replaced the aerodynamic V6 Intrepid with the 600lb heavier flying brick of the 300 + V8 and still can meet fuel economy laws. I'd rather see a decent sized diesel in there knocking out 50mpg.

damn rob... good point

im also comfortable in my manhood to admit I actually like the Scion tc, even if it doesnt have alot of power



im thinking of getting one for a shop car

scion t.c. is a really nice car. you have to see it up front to really appreciate it. does it come in a stick though, that would make it a whole lot of fun to drive. i have driven one, and it was really nice, handling was good, so were the brakes.

tyson's right, it wont last. at some point gas prices will get people to want cars with good economy.



unlike the 70's though, you can have 200hp and 30mpg in the same car

[quote name='rowtareh' date='Sep 14 2005, 12:10 AM']scion t.c. is a really nice car. you have to see it up front to really appreciate it. does it come in a stick though, that would make it a whole lot of fun to drive. i have driven one, and it was really nice, handling was good, so were the brakes.


[/quote]





They are available in a manual. Its the 4 cyl and 5 speed manual or 4 speed auto out of the camry.



I thought it handled well, rides nicely, but it does feel cramped inside to me. Quiet too, not something you see much in a car of that price range.

GTOoooooooooooooooooo!

My clunker is pretty raw, buttttt I don't have to deal with strict california emissions which is a plus. A miata is looking pretty good during these times though.

I also find it amazing what some cars with less that normal horsepower are capable of these days.

[quote name='Rob x-7' date='Sep 13 2005, 06:51 PM']The power in new cars is getting crazy, Impalas with 300hp, Envoys or whatever with 400hp



these are normal everyday boring cars, makes me think twice about bothering with these clunkers pushing themselves to get 400hp in a car that will basically lose all its creature comforts and not be very pleasant to drive https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683358.gif https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683358.gif

sigh


[/quote]



Very true. But half of what being a car enthusiast is about is messing with clunkers.

Cars are also getting a lot heavier so it balances out somewhat.



Mark

messing with a old car is one thing, I like that I can get into my car and drive it anywhere, I know that once I mess with it Im probably going to lose some confidence in it being reliable.



Im saying keep the old car nice and driveable, but go out a rape a new car with the warranty and still have comfort and reliability.



I did have a dream the night before I was looking at the GTO which is what got me thinking, so its wierd Vosko would mention that. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683246.gif

Yeah, if you can swing the payment, or better yet, buy one outright, there isn't much about an older car that you couldn't get in a new car. Okay, maybe that musty funk, but do we really want that? https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683785.gif



Even in the twisties, the new stuff hangs in or excels. I recall an article that Grassroots Motorsports ran a year or two ago where they ran the Honda Odyssey of all things against an old Porsche and a Jag. 255 HP and it handles very well.



For most people, it's not so much bang for the buck as it is a nostalgia trip, or for my wife and I, just having a cheap fast car around that we can take the strip now and then.

I did the new car thing...it got old quick.....

[quote name='Black8' date='Sep 14 2005, 10:30 AM']I did the new car thing...it got old quick.....


[/quote]



That's because you bought the NEW headache



-Tekniques

If I could buy a new car, I would in an instant. I like my old wimpy car, because I can immediately see and experience the fruits of my labor, something that isn't so evident in other aspects life. The same would be true for a new car (assuming I worked for the money and such), but working on an old car has been cheaper so far.



If I ever get to the level of "spending lots of money to make it go fast," I'll just buy a new car (or swap an ls7 into miata).

I wouldn't mind one brand new car as a reliable and comforatable econobox. But if thats all I had I would get bored really quick.

[quote name='Rob x-7' date='Sep 14 2005, 06:02 AM']messing with a old car is one thing, I like that I can get into my car and drive it anywhere, I know that once I mess with it Im probably going to lose some confidence in it being reliable.



Im saying keep the old car nice and driveable, but go out a rape a new car with the warranty and still have comfort and reliability.



I did have a dream the night before I was looking at the GTO which is what got me thinking, so its wierd Vosko would mention that. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683246.gif


[/quote]



**** the gto..although i liek the way it looks....but a used 01-02 firebird or camaro...its faster and less expensive. gto is way to heavy.



tc also has a factory option for a supercharger. ia lmost bought one when i was looking for a car...it was between that..a used wrx, new srt4 and 2001 camaro ss.



[quote name='94touring' date='Sep 14 2005, 12:35 AM']Very true. But half of what being a car enthusiast is about is messing with clunkers.


[/quote]



I thin being a car enthusiast is messing with cars in general..not jsut dunkers.

[quote name='94touring' date='Sep 14 2005, 04:00 PM']I wouldn't mind one brand new car as a reliable and comforatable econobox. But if thats all I had I would get bored really quick.


[/quote]

Agreed. New cars are too sterile and ergonomic - they all feel the same. Old tempremental cars with awkward controls have character. Not saying they're better, far from it.



Mark

[quote name='BrandonDrecksage' date='Sep 14 2005, 07:17 AM']

I thin being a car enthusiast is messing with cars in general..not jsut dunkers.


[/quote]



Hence the word "half". The other half is newer cars.

[quote name='BrandonDrecksage' date='Sep 14 2005, 07:17 AM']**** the gto..although i liek the way it looks....but a used 01-02 firebird or camaro...its faster and less expensive. gto is way to heavy.


[/quote]





yeah but everyone and their mother has a firebird or camaro. they aren't very comfortable either, and they interior's weren't designed for the driver in mind.



the gto is a lot more comfortable, and is more driver friendly.

I love the ******* GTOs. My grandparents had a 65 that was in perfect condition in Irish Mist...so sexy. The new ones took a bit of getting used to, but they've grown on me since we're having the second coming of the muscle age.

[quote name='j9fd3s' date='Sep 14 2005, 12:59 AM']tyson's right, it wont last. at some point gas prices will get people to want cars with good economy.



unlike the 70's though, you can have 200hp and 30mpg in the same car


[/quote]





Speaking of which....



http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050914/tc_nm/...ergy_mileage_dc

I am slowly getting onto the family car thing too.



I'm actually pretty impressed by the new STIs and Evos.

[quote name='PhoenixDownVII' date='Sep 14 2005, 06:31 AM']That's because you bought the NEW headache



-Tekniques


[/quote]





Well....it wasn't too bad...it did make many trips back to the dealer, but only 2 were for non recall work.....I don't have any animosity towards mazda or the dealers....for the most part they took care of my concerns and the car was awesome.....



But, I just got another toy, that's faster, cost me 1/6th the RX8 did and will blow it away. And get 25mpg, not worry about adding oil, and can shut it down cold, anytime, and not flood it(to the RX8's defense, it never flooded in my hands....maybe because of the special care I gave it, or not...).





I am a diehard rotary guy...I will own another rotary powered car....don't know if it will be brand-new, or used.....

I guess this thread isn't talking about the RX8





of FC's https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png

[quote name='boxrs4sale' date='Sep 14 2005, 12:37 PM']yeah but everyone and their mother has a firebird or camaro. they aren't very comfortable either, and they interior's weren't designed for the driver in mind.



the gto is a lot more comfortable, and is more driver friendly.


[/quote]



are you kidding me? is the most comfortable car i've ever driven...every other car hurts my back and legs. i've only seen 2 other camaro SS on the road and a handful of z28...they are more rare now a days..thats why they stopped selling the car...they couldn't sell them anymore. I don't see whats not designed for the driver? only thing that bugs me is its a lil bit hard to heal toe downshift in the car cause the gas pedal is pushed back a lil. have you drivin a 98-02 camaro before? no to mention..you can pick up a decent one for 10-15k.

Well, one thing is that the HP rating on the new cars are fly wheel HP...on our old clunkers we get actual WHP...Take the Z06 for instance..they say 400hp...But in all reality it's works out to be about 330-340 after an 18% drivetrain loss. So still my lighter, 412rwhp, clunker breats the pants off it. In a straight line and in the twisties...And Although I am getting really close to the cost of one with my FD, I'd say the only real attractive thing of a new car to me is a warranty.

[quote name='BrandonDrecksage' date='Sep 14 2005, 11:46 AM']are you kidding me? is the most comfortable car i've ever driven...every other car hurts my back and legs. have you drivin a 98-02 camaro before? no to mention..you can pick up a decent one for 10-15k.


[/quote]



i worked at a chevy dealer for 3 years ... from 1997 into 2000.. i drove in all, probably several hundred z28's, ss's, 6 bangers, pace editions, etc... They are by far the least comfortable car I have driven.. It is not very driver friendly, cheap controls, boring layout... it's like they ran out of ideas from 1994...



a decent camaro is much cheaper than 10-15k now isn't it? i remember the resale being terrible.

[quote name='nopistons94' date='Sep 14 2005, 02:03 PM']I guess this thread isn't talking about the RX8

of FC's https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png


[/quote]





i know right, since the FC came out last year



https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683664.gif

[quote name='94touring' date='Sep 14 2005, 11:00 AM']I wouldn't mind one brand new car as a reliable and comforatable econobox. But if thats all I had I would get bored really quick.


[/quote]





who said econobox?



Im saying a car that is a fun to drive, powerfull, and comfortable

I was saying for conversation sake that I was thinking of a TC for a SHOP car, meaning back and forth to work and to give estimates, that kind of junk, if it gets hit or scratched or I load the trunk with garbage who cares.





I do like the 400hp GTO though



whole point being that people spend double and triple what thier car is worth to get 400hp when 400hp isnt **** these days. 90% of those cars end up the same too- wrecked and/or parted out.

[quote name='Dramon_Killer' date='Sep 14 2005, 01:56 PM']I am slowly getting onto the family car thing too.



I'm actually pretty impressed by the new STIs and Evos.


[/quote]



hunny are you expecting?



- Hand

[quote name='Rob x-7' date='Sep 14 2005, 07:02 AM']messing with a old car is one thing, I like that I can get into my car and drive it anywhere, I know that once I mess with it Im probably going to lose some confidence in it being reliable.



Im saying keep the old car nice and driveable, but go out a rape a new car with the warranty and still have comfort and reliability.



I did have a dream the night before I was looking at the GTO which is what got me thinking, so its wierd Vosko would mention that. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683246.gif


[/quote]



its an old man car......so i immediately thought of you https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683785.gif

[quote name='Rob x-7' date='Sep 14 2005, 03:54 PM']who said econobox?



Im saying a car that is a fun to drive, powerfull, and comfortable

I was saying for conversation sake that I was thinking of a TC for a SHOP car, meaning back and forth to work and to give estimates, that kind of junk, if it gets hit or scratched or I load the trunk with garbage who cares.

I do like the 400hp GTO though



whole point being that people spend double and triple what thier car is worth to get 400hp when 400hp isnt **** these days. 90% of those cars end up the same too- wrecked and/or parted out.


[/quote]



Back and forth to work..and hit or scratch who cares....isn't that that what an econobox is?



But yeah I see what you're saying about something fun, powerfull and comforatable and new.

I for one really like the older F-bodys. You just gotta make sure its a '98+ with the Ls1 and bug eyed headlights. The only that bothers me is their size, and the fact you cant see the ******* hood.

I <3 my WRX.

[quote name='boxrs4sale' date='Sep 14 2005, 03:58 PM']i worked at a chevy dealer for 3 years ... from 1997 into 2000.. i drove in all, probably several hundred z28's, ss's, 6 bangers, pace editions, etc... They are by far the least comfortable car I have driven.. It is not very driver friendly, cheap controls, boring layout... it's like they ran out of ideas from 1994...



a decent camaro is much cheaper than 10-15k now isn't it? i remember the resale being terrible.


[/quote]



it depends what you buy..i bought a fully load(t-tops, slp lid and exhaust, "SS" option, premium sound, leather and some other bs) 01 ss with 50k on it for 15k. and i got a good price...for the ss..most people spend more than that. a z28 can be had for a couple grand less..maybe two. i wish i waited and got a z28..its basically the same car. only complaint that i do have with the car is that the sound system sucks.



not very driver friendly and borng are two different things..i like to think of the gauges, layout, and controls to be simple and not distracting.. when i'm actually getting on it..i don't even look down..i jsut grab the next gear when the shfit lgiht goes off thats in the ac vent. and like i said before..everyone who has been in my car has said its one of the most comfortable cars that they've been in..i guess mine is special.