This Is How We Roll
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,346
From: Tulsa, OK
Allow me to correct myself. 4.6 and 2.0 ml per gallon.
"In order to get better anti detonation characteristics from a particular aviation fuel, tetraethyl lead, a heavy, oily poisonous liquid is added. Grade 100 is allowed to have as much as 4.6ml per gallon. Tetraethyl lead allows engines to develop more power without detonation, but using a fuel with a lead content higher than the engine is designed to accommodate leads to problems of spark plug lead fouling and sticking valves." "to accomodate the lower lead engines and at the same time have a fuel with an octane rating high enough for the high compression engines, the petroleum industry has brought out a fuel called grade 100ll. This low lead 100 octane fuel has a maximum of 2.0 ml lead per gallon" "the two milliliters of lead provide enough lubrication of parts requiring the lead, and at the same time its lead content is low enough that spark plug fouling and valve sticking is not a problem" "a scavenging agent, ethylene dibromide, is added to the fuel to combine with the lead oxide and form lead bromide"
"In order to get better anti detonation characteristics from a particular aviation fuel, tetraethyl lead, a heavy, oily poisonous liquid is added. Grade 100 is allowed to have as much as 4.6ml per gallon. Tetraethyl lead allows engines to develop more power without detonation, but using a fuel with a lead content higher than the engine is designed to accommodate leads to problems of spark plug lead fouling and sticking valves." "to accomodate the lower lead engines and at the same time have a fuel with an octane rating high enough for the high compression engines, the petroleum industry has brought out a fuel called grade 100ll. This low lead 100 octane fuel has a maximum of 2.0 ml lead per gallon" "the two milliliters of lead provide enough lubrication of parts requiring the lead, and at the same time its lead content is low enough that spark plug fouling and valve sticking is not a problem" "a scavenging agent, ethylene dibromide, is added to the fuel to combine with the lead oxide and form lead bromide"
Administrator
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 24,416
From: Stuart, FL
[quote name='94touring' date='Sep 6 2005, 06:24 PM']2.6 ml of lead per gallon, compared to 4ml per gallon of regular leaded fuel. Also has a bromide agent which gets rid of any deposits on spark plugs, ect... The lead is an anti-detonative material as well and is used in rotary airplanes with great success.
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lead weighs 11.3 grams per ml so by your figures that would put something like 29.3 grams per gallon of LL???
The highest number i could find on a quick google search was 2 grams per gallon in Low Lead, 4 grams in the old 100 and .9 in auto gas.
I'd have to question 2.6 ml per gallon.
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lead weighs 11.3 grams per ml so by your figures that would put something like 29.3 grams per gallon of LL???
The highest number i could find on a quick google search was 2 grams per gallon in Low Lead, 4 grams in the old 100 and .9 in auto gas.
I'd have to question 2.6 ml per gallon.
Administrator
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 24,416
From: Stuart, FL
[quote name='94touring' date='Sep 6 2005, 08:24 PM']Allow me to correct myself. 4.0 and 2.6 ml per gallon.
"In order to get better anti detonation characteristics from a particular aviation fuel, tetraethyl lead, a heavy, oily poisonous liquid is added. Grade 100 is allowed to have as much as 4.6ml per gallon. Tetraethyl lead allows engines to develop more power without detonation, but using a fuel with a lead content higher than the engine is designed to accommodate leads to problems of spark plug lead fouling and sticking valves." "to accomodate the lower lead engines and at the same time have a fuel with an octane rating high enough for the high compression engines, the petroleum industry has brought out a fuel called grade 100ll. This low lead 100 octane fuel has a maximum of 2.0 ml lead per gallon" "the two milliliters of lead provide enough lubrication of parts requiring the lead, and at the same time its lead content is low enough that spark plug fouling and valve sticking is not a problem" "a scavenging agent, ethylene dibromide, is added to the fuel to combine with the lead oxide and form lead bromide"
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HA HA ok that's talking about the old grade 100, which was more then double the low lead. you aren't talking about avgas VS. auto gas, make sense?
Basically those numbers agree with my post above however I have never seen it measure in m/l per gallon. Reason being is ml is a metric measurement, gallon us. I'm guessing it means grams per gallon as that is the only way I have ever seen it measured. At that rate our numbers agree, however there is no comparison to auto gas.
That said, I have pulled the plugs on av motors and with old gas, for whatever reason they seem to leave the deposits on the plugs. Possible that the scavenging agents breakdown overtime or what I dunno, all I know is I've seen it several times and I've prolly had my head in a few more horizontally opposed av motors then you (no offense intended).
"In order to get better anti detonation characteristics from a particular aviation fuel, tetraethyl lead, a heavy, oily poisonous liquid is added. Grade 100 is allowed to have as much as 4.6ml per gallon. Tetraethyl lead allows engines to develop more power without detonation, but using a fuel with a lead content higher than the engine is designed to accommodate leads to problems of spark plug lead fouling and sticking valves." "to accomodate the lower lead engines and at the same time have a fuel with an octane rating high enough for the high compression engines, the petroleum industry has brought out a fuel called grade 100ll. This low lead 100 octane fuel has a maximum of 2.0 ml lead per gallon" "the two milliliters of lead provide enough lubrication of parts requiring the lead, and at the same time its lead content is low enough that spark plug fouling and valve sticking is not a problem" "a scavenging agent, ethylene dibromide, is added to the fuel to combine with the lead oxide and form lead bromide"
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HA HA ok that's talking about the old grade 100, which was more then double the low lead. you aren't talking about avgas VS. auto gas, make sense?
Basically those numbers agree with my post above however I have never seen it measure in m/l per gallon. Reason being is ml is a metric measurement, gallon us. I'm guessing it means grams per gallon as that is the only way I have ever seen it measured. At that rate our numbers agree, however there is no comparison to auto gas.
That said, I have pulled the plugs on av motors and with old gas, for whatever reason they seem to leave the deposits on the plugs. Possible that the scavenging agents breakdown overtime or what I dunno, all I know is I've seen it several times and I've prolly had my head in a few more horizontally opposed av motors then you (no offense intended).
Administrator
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 24,416
From: Stuart, FL
Here's a quick link supporting the numbers you posted however they are in grams not m/l
http://www.answers.com/topic/avgas
again this is just lowlead vs old school avgas
http://www.answers.com/topic/avgas
again this is just lowlead vs old school avgas
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,346
From: Tulsa, OK
I was strictly talking about AV fuel. I threw in a comparison between old 100 av fuel and the new 100ll to give a little background. 100ll has 2.0 ml of lead per gallon while the old had 4.6ml. The new 100ll also has a bromide agent that further increase the break up of lead deposits.
9 times out of 10 you'll get fouled plugs by not leaning the mixture as you climb in altitude. Occasionally I'll have to run the motor up to clear the plugs before takeoff.
9 times out of 10 you'll get fouled plugs by not leaning the mixture as you climb in altitude. Occasionally I'll have to run the motor up to clear the plugs before takeoff.
Administrator
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 24,416
From: Stuart, FL
[quote name='94touring' date='Sep 6 2005, 08:38 PM']I was strictly talking about AV fuel. I threw in a comparison between old 100 av fuel and the new 100ll to give a little background. 100ll has 2.0 ml of lead per gallon while the old had 4.6ml. The new 100ll also has a bromide agent that further increase the break up of lead deposits.
9 times out of 10 you'll get fouled plugs by not leaning the mixture as you climb in altitude. Occasionally I'll have to run the motor up to clear the plugs before takeoff.
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You will get fouled plugs however you won't get "lead fouled" plugs. You will get a rich mixture foul which will look very dark, lead foul is white beads, almost looks like solder.
And yea I realized we were arguing the same thing, although i am pretty sure the m/l is not a correct measurement.
I had a lead fouling issue in a Bell whirly bird (helicopter) that I rebuilt the motor on (and had to ride in the thing). Anyhow, no matter what I did to timing it kept fouling them, ask an old timer and he says drain the gas. bam, never had an issue with it.
9 times out of 10 you'll get fouled plugs by not leaning the mixture as you climb in altitude. Occasionally I'll have to run the motor up to clear the plugs before takeoff.
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You will get fouled plugs however you won't get "lead fouled" plugs. You will get a rich mixture foul which will look very dark, lead foul is white beads, almost looks like solder.
And yea I realized we were arguing the same thing, although i am pretty sure the m/l is not a correct measurement.
I had a lead fouling issue in a Bell whirly bird (helicopter) that I rebuilt the motor on (and had to ride in the thing). Anyhow, no matter what I did to timing it kept fouling them, ask an old timer and he says drain the gas. bam, never had an issue with it.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,346
From: Tulsa, OK
[quote name='phinsup' date='Sep 6 2005, 04:41 PM']You will get fouled plugs however you won't get "lead fouled" plugs. You will get a rich mixture foul which will look very dark, lead foul is white beads, almost looks like solder.
And yea I realized we were arguing the same thing, although i am pretty sure the m/l is not a correct measurement.
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My point exactly, the plugs don't get fouled by the lead. Which is why its a wonderful thing to be running av gas in the car.
And yea I realized we were arguing the same thing, although i am pretty sure the m/l is not a correct measurement.
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My point exactly, the plugs don't get fouled by the lead. Which is why its a wonderful thing to be running av gas in the car.
Administrator
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 24,416
From: Stuart, FL
[quote name='94touring' date='Sep 6 2005, 08:47 PM']My point exactly, the plugs don't get fouled by the lead. Which is why its a wonderful thing to be running av gas in the car.
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Well that wasn't exactly what I was saying, i was saying that a rich fuel mixture foul is different then a lead foul, actually at rich fuel mixture, on take off as you mentioned would result in a very cool cylinder head temp, where as lead fouling takes place at very high temps, which would more likely come from a lean fuel mixture.
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Well that wasn't exactly what I was saying, i was saying that a rich fuel mixture foul is different then a lead foul, actually at rich fuel mixture, on take off as you mentioned would result in a very cool cylinder head temp, where as lead fouling takes place at very high temps, which would more likely come from a lean fuel mixture.
Administrator
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 24,416
From: Stuart, FL
[quote name='Edna' date='Sep 6 2005, 09:00 PM']that is like the most well worded argument ever, 2 pts to you both.
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I went to school for 2 years to get my A&P (Aircraft and Powerlant) license, spent 3 years working on heavy's United, Southwest, America West, Continental, Northwest and Frontier to name a few, worked for BF Goodrich Aerospace we did major overhauls (C and D checks) and here and there on general, then got laid off and decided it wasn't what i wanted to do anymore.
Oh well at least I can ramble on about avgas I however don't claim to be an expert on flying them!
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I went to school for 2 years to get my A&P (Aircraft and Powerlant) license, spent 3 years working on heavy's United, Southwest, America West, Continental, Northwest and Frontier to name a few, worked for BF Goodrich Aerospace we did major overhauls (C and D checks) and here and there on general, then got laid off and decided it wasn't what i wanted to do anymore.
Oh well at least I can ramble on about avgas
