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Looks like ones going to happen here, gotta figure out where I am going to get the bottled water filled, fuggin safeway is where I do it now, but I ain't shopping there when they go on strike, I don't cross picket lines and I don't support business's when their employees are on a legal strike, I think it's pretty fucked that they are trying to screw them out of their health benefits.
What's yer take on dealio, I know CA had a nasty one, a lot of people could care less about strikes, it's just something I've always stuck to. |
There was a Safeway strike 15 years ago, wasn't there? Trying to remember...
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Oh fun. We finished with ours like 5 months ago. The stores were empty and expensive. Not my idea of a picnic. Hahaha, get it, you need food for a picnic and its not my idea for one since the stores dont have any! BWAHahahaha... *ahem*
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Its pretty likely it will happen now but you never know. Negotiations have been extended until the end of June but they have been going on since April. I hope a decent deal can be worked out. I have worked for Safeway for far longer than I expected, but I have no complaints its pretty decent. However the new contract they want is pretty radical. The health benefits are important, but are really not the big issue in my mind. Safeway wants to lower the pay for Journeyman wages almost two bucks for all new employees. This means that people will be working on a two tier wage system side by side, sort of an old vs. the new employees, who are asked to do the same but make less money, to me thats ****! Safeway is also asking to do away with Sunday pay as well as overtime. I'm sorry, but I have worked most every major holiday and weekend, and I can tell you that without any incentives of extra pay most peoples willingness to work will be out the door.
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they have sunday pay?? damn i didnt know that. i just started working at genaurdis which is owned by safeway.
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I don't think it was 15 years, more like 10 if I remember correctly, but it was pretty short. Brown and Cole and all the other chainsin this area have agreed to the contract if I understand correctly, Slaveway just doesn't want to do it and they aren't getting my money if they send their workers out the front door packing, that just sucks.
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I have mixed feelings on unions. They did serve a purpose at one time, however I feel that time has passed. If a man cannot negotiate his own salary/benefits package he deserves what he gets. Unions have contributed to the demise of MANY industries in this country. For example: Kodak, Carrier, The big three, textiles, Steel Mills etc.
Example One: Carrier: Pre-Union 8000 + workers in Syracuse NY. A welder could complete the 23 welds required for an average cooling plant shell in under 2 minutes. Plant unioinzes: Worker received a pay raise and now gets 10 minutes to perform same number of welds. Hooray you say? Wrong; Carrier is now closing the Syracuse plant and moving it to Mexico because it is not as competitive as the new plant in Mexico. Thank you UNION!!! NOw there are another 8000 UNEMPLOYEED workers in Central NY |
Originally Posted by banzaitoyota' date='Jun 2 2004, 06:01 AM
I have mixed feelings on unions. They did serve a purpose at one time, however I feel that time has passed. If a man cannot negotiate his own salary/benefits package he deserves what he gets. Unions have contributed to the demise of MANY industries in this country. For example: Kodak, Carrier, The big three, textiles, Steel Mills etc.
Example One: Carrier: Pre-Union 8000 + workers in Syracuse NY. A welder could complete the 23 welds required for an average cooling plant shell in under 2 minutes. Plant unioinzes: Worker received a pay raise and now gets 10 minutes to perform same number of welds. Hooray you say? Wrong; Carrier is now closing the Syracuse plant and moving it to Mexico because it is not as competitive as the new plant in Mexico. Thank you UNION!!! NOw there are another 8000 UNEMPLOYEED workers in Central NY |
I hit that ni***r than i broke out!
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From my understanding, Canada is losing more Jobs to outsourcing than the US.
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burger king loses more employees than it hires, but im sure thats standard in the fast food industry!
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Originally Posted by banzaitoyota' date='Jun 2 2004, 06:37 AM
From my understanding, Canada is losing more Jobs to outsourcing than the US.
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Originally Posted by banzaitoyota' date='Jun 2 2004, 09:37 AM
From my understanding, Canada is losing more Jobs to outsourcing than the US.
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Originally Posted by banzaitoyota' date='Jun 2 2004, 06:37 AM
From my understanding, Canada is losing more Jobs to outsourcing than the US.
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Originally Posted by phinsup' date='Jun 2 2004, 09:45 AM
Yea, well it's hard to do business there with an effective tax rate of close to 50%
Our government has been working hard to make us into a third world country for a long time now. Higher education standard and lower absenteeism among workers, but they only provide incentives for companies to bring manufacturing assembly line jobs here, no technical work allowed. Now with the high levels of automation it really doesn't matter if manufacturing is done here, Mexico or Alabama, the education level of the assembly line worker has no influence on the finished product. It comes down to which local government offers the most tax breaks for building the factory. This is why companies like BMW and Mercedes have factories in Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas and Alabama. Cheap labour and no property taxes for incentives. |
i think unions made america lazy....
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Originally Posted by TYSON' date='Jun 2 2004, 06:09 AM
Now with the high levels of automation it really doesn't matter if manufacturing is done here, Mexico or Alabama, the education level of the assembly line worker has no influence on the finished product.
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"It comes down to which local government offers the most tax breaks for building the factory. This is why companies like BMW and Mercedes have factories in Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas and Alabama. Cheap labour and no property taxes for incentives. "
And when the incentives expire, the company closes the plant. AKA MACK Trucks in Winnsboro SC. When that plant closed Atlantic Hitch in Denmark SC also closed. Coincidence. I think not. The other problem is FOREIGN Companies coming in and buying small companies and assimalating them to elimanate the competion. |
one other usless employment fact; walmart is the second largest employer in the country, behind the us govt. they are non union
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I'm not too keen on unions mostly these days it seems to be a way of getting $15 an hour for a $7 an hour job. I remember a tv show about a miller bottling plant closing down and they were watching the union and how it did things, following people etc. The union came out with tons of promises but Miller still shut down the plant because it was loosing money. They seemed to be all upset by this, how DARE they want to make a profit!?
One of the people they watched was a lady that loaded labels into a machine. That was it. Period. Nothing else, maybe move a 10 pound box once in awhile and probably some knoweldge of how the machine did what it did. She was getting paid $17 an hour do to this. Now she's out of work and finds that she has a skill set that's really worth $6 an hour or so. I've got a friend who's on strike right now in St. John Canada. (That's New Brunswick, not Newfoundland for anyone who gives a ****) Alliant communications treats their employees like garbage so they finally unionized and are now striking. Alliant is digging in and bringing in other employees to do the work. Wonder how he's going to make his mortgage payments? Then there was the time Catapillar fired all the striking workers and moved to non union. The expression of shock on the workers faces was quite amusing. Anyway no I usually won't cross a picket line because it's a pain. I have done it a few times because I needed to, at one point they were trying to slow me down from getting into the hospital to work. Things would have gotten really nasty if security hadn't moved them, I don't give a **** what your problem with whomever is, you don't try to stop me from doing my job. |
Originally Posted by TYSON' date='Jun 2 2004, 07:09 AM
Below an income of $50,000 our taxes are lower than yours.
Our government has been working hard to make us into a third world country for a long time now. Higher education standard and lower absenteeism among workers, but they only provide incentives for companies to bring manufacturing assembly line jobs here, no technical work allowed. Now with the high levels of automation it really doesn't matter if manufacturing is done here, Mexico or Alabama, the education level of the assembly line worker has no influence on the finished product. It comes down to which local government offers the most tax breaks for building the factory. This is why companies like BMW and Mercedes have factories in Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas and Alabama. Cheap labour and no property taxes for incentives. And if you were to take into account the exchange rate on a $50K canadian salary, you'd be making McDonald's manager wages to escape the high tax rate, putting you in the "low income" category here in the US, once in that category the EFFECTIVE tax rate is surprisingly low, not to mention the HUD housing benefits and of course even here in the US you get free mediocre healthcare when you fall into that bracket... ahh, tell me why business's should be flocking to Canada again? Cause they have to pay employees $100K to get home with $50K and be able to afford a reliable car to get to work? Do you know the effective tax rate on Canadian corporations? That would be a far better argument as to why businesses often consider it too costly to set up shop in Canada.... or do not consider it too costly. When we're talking about shipping off jobs, arguing the workers effective tax rate is futile. Effective includes all taxes and discounts, ie, say a tax to pay for health insurance, state/province tax, etc.... are you factoring ALL of those in to your Canadian poverty level pays less taxes in canada then in the US? |
Originally Posted by TYSON' date='Jun 2 2004, 07:09 AM
Below an income of $50,000 our taxes are lower than yours.
Set your goals low, move to canada and be poor, we'll tax you less. i honestly don't know who pays the mojority of taxes in Canada, but from your statement I would venture a guess and say it's similar to the US... the middle class pays the taxes, poverty level gets some breaks, small business get screwed and big business either gets the breaks or hits the road. |
Now don't get me wrong I love Canada, they lead the world in being just North of the US, allowing terrorists on to North American soil and don't forget their best export, high quality THC.
btw, I'm just being sarcastic there, with the exception of the French part I love Canada. |
Its the FRENCHIES FAULT?
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Well with a little research, as far as businesses go, it would appear that the US and Canada are in the same ballpark for taxes, US comes in at something 27.2% effective tax rate and the Canadian effective business tax rate is 28.4% so that pretty much shoots my theory out of the ground.
Exportation costs possibly? |
Originally Posted by j9fd3s' date='Jun 2 2004, 07:17 AM
one other usless employment fact; walmart is the second largest employer in the country, behind the us govt. they are non union
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I was a scab..
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Originally Posted by 75 Repu' date='Jun 2 2004, 07:40 AM
I was a scab..
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I've got mixed feelings on unions...we have one at work but you don't have to join. however they will still help you with work problems..You must be a member to use there dental plan, but other than that they will still help you out if you are being mistreated. Now unions also do harm...we had a garbage strike here last month..garbage collecters make around 19.00 or so to start around here (no state income tax) and only go up...they wanted more money and less overtime...hell the people who are going to suffer are us in the cost of trash pick up and if you rent a can from the company (I don't but they tried to stick me with a rental fee)
At my job I don't get over time...I'd love over time I'd be at work 12 hours a day...we get a shitty thing called comp time...1 hour comp for 1 hour over...BS!!!! |
Dude, I'll pay em $19.00 to haul garbage, they can have that job.
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From:
Taxes and more Taxes - More is better ? - Not really if you look at wealth and morality It is quite apparent that the Federal Government is corrupt - the $250 million sponsorship scandal is just one example of many [HRDC, Gun Registry, Corporate Welfare, Regional Programs, Kyoto…] of where government’s and their allies and paid supporters ride high off the public spending hog. If anyone needs to be reminded that big government IS the problem, then the current fracas involving the Chretien - Martin regime should be rather a poignant example of what is wrong in Canada. Martin and his government are responsible as is Chretien and his minister’s for the wastage of taxpayer money on a variety of projects during the past 10 years. This is not only to blame the Liberals, Mulroney was hardly a paragon of honesty, spending reduction or tax reduction either. What then to do ? First we should face the facts that government in Canada as Tony Clement recently stated is just too massive. According to Jack Mintz who is one of the foremost and eloquent critics of Canada’s high taxation regime - Government’s take 43 % of our GDP in taxes, transfers, user fees, resource royalties, deficit spending, crown corporation spending and municipal spending. This is crippling. Most economists state unequivocally that government transfers above 30 % of GDP hamper economic growth and wealth creation and actually on a marginal basis destroy more wealth then they create. This is especially relevant when you compare Canada " with no military system, little border controls and a woeful immigration system, free riding off the US " has 7 % more of GDP under government control than the US which has 35 % of GDP under government control. Normalise for Canada’s free riding off the US military and we would " with normal military spend, border controls and security spend " have well over 46 % of our GDP under government control. When your major trading partner and competitor has only about 35 % of its GDP under Government control the difference is staggering leading to wealth destruction in Canada and more perniciously a whole philosophy of self justification for WHY government must control so much of our economic and social affairs. This philosophy with no basis in historical empiricism or realistic assessment of reality is called Post Modernism. It is elitist, judicially biased and prone to historical revisionism. It is also morally and economically bankrupt. Mintz in recent National Post articles has evinced some important points. We can list them here and summarise his observations: Governments take $475 billion out of taxpayers each year or $15000 per capita. In 1981 governments took only $10.000 per capita. In 1981 Ottawa took $4.900 per capita and this has risen to $6.100 by 2002. Provincial and municipal spending has increased by more than 65 % from $5.400 in 1981, to $8.900 in 2002 [inflation adjusted]. OCED reports for 2001 state that Canada’s revenue to GDP ratio is 42% catching up quickly with Germany [46%] and France [50 %]. Considering the deplorable state of EU affairs this is nothing to be proud of. Governments elsewhere provide important social services at far lower costs. The ageing of our population makes social service reform inevitable if we are to avoid bankruptcy. High personal tax rates falling on middle class and lower income earners approach a marginal rate of 70 %. A person whose salary is in the 30 % tax bracket, who earns 4 % on a GIC, with inflation at 2 % faces an effective tax rate of 60 %. RRSP limits have not kept up with inflation and the limits are quite low. [only up to 18 % of earned income, forcing people to spend]. Dividend tax rate is higher than the capital gains rate, meaning that firms do not pay dividends and instead buy back their own shares. · Corporate income taxes are the 5th highest in the world and force firms to locate offshore. |
Originally Posted by phinsup' date='Jun 2 2004, 06:40 AM
I'll ******* bust your head you **********er.
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Please don't take this as some anti-canadian campaign, it certainly is not, I was just trying to give some possibilities as to why jobs are leaving canada.
They are leaving the US at a comparable rate if not faster, tech jobs are being sent to India, local companies don't even have an IT dept in the US, it sucks. They let laborer's cross the US/Mexican borders at a staggering rate, you wanna pay close to nothing, rather then solving that issue, by forcing employers' to pay more, they let non-citizens take the no-to-low paying jobs. So don't take offense, I certainly wasn't hatin on CA, just providing some possible reasons as to why things are the way they are! |
Originally Posted by 75 Repu' date='Jun 2 2004, 08:10 AM
hahahhahahha.. hey man.. Money is money..
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I don't care about those pickets because in reality the way I see is that all those people bitchin had a choice, and they never got a good career.. now they are bitchin yet they are gettin paid well and just never seem to be happy.. I could make a tons more money than them.. but payin for my own benefits without a company plan woulde offset the gain in income.. they have it good but are greedy.. if they wanted a better life they should have made somethin of it..
that said it is not like that for all the employees involved.. it sucks ass that some lost cars houses and **** like that.. but hey.. their choice not mine.. I just survive in my own way.. no sides.. no cares.. |
LOL
I am aware what taxes are taken from a paycheck in Canada! The comparison I saw was put together by Newsweek or someone like that, hopefully they would look into it a little. It was Mid-Clinton if I recall, so things may be different now. As for $50K ($25/hr) being a poverty level, perhaps it is for those in some industries (software comes to mind) But in manufacturing or service industries it is not, unless you are in a big three factory. I don't know all that many factories here that pay that much, other than those in the auto workers unions. Mcdonalds managers DREAM about the day they could make that much. It IS an incentive to factories to go there. If your low paid employees are taking home more money thanks to a lower personal income tax rate, you don't have to pay as much in the first place. If wages for doing the same job are also lower even when you don't account for taxes, this is obviously an incentive. Homes almost always cost less here. Fuel costs more, which is obviously a major decision unless your trucks are always running to the States anyway, so then you don't care. I just looked at an old tax form of mine. Income was below $50000 for that year, and I paid 26% deductions. This covered everything, medical, full dental (including 50% of any purely cosmetic dental work), free eye glasses and testing, pay 5% of any perscription medications out of pocket, all federal and provincial income taxes, employment insurance, government pension plan contributions, the works. The only additional taxes I would pay are sales tax (15% split between provincial and federal, not on food) and property tax if I owned my house (perhaps $200 per month for a decent house in this city) As for corporate taxes, I have no idea. People here make a big deal out of it if the government offers tons of freebies to corporations. Pro-sports are a prime example, all over the US cities and states spend hundreds of millions of taxpayers dollars to GIVE a team a stadium, no strings attached. Heads would roll down the streets if that happened here. Like Banzai said, as soon as the incentives dry up, the factory is closed and gone. In automotive, everytime they come out with a new car, the factory is completely stripped to a bare shell and all the machinery is replaced. If you're doing that anyway, the cost of the building itself is not that important. If the next state over offeres you $15 million worth of tax breaks to move there, you're gone. |
No-one is forcing those unionized workers to hold a union JOB. It boils down to the fact that they (workers) want something for nothing. This is a FREE country. Why should some UNION BIGWIG dictate to me how I spend my money?
If I want to shop somewhere I have a freedom to walk into the store without being harassed by picketeers, who are sometimes just hired help to picket. Look at the PUBLIX strike back in the 90's; the union could not musteer enough support in its own ranks to make an effective pickett line, so they hired temps to wave their placards. If a man cant negoitiate a salary he is happy with, he needs to go elsewhere to work. |
Originally Posted by TYSON' date='Jun 2 2004, 08:22 AM
LOL
I am aware what taxes are taken from a paycheck in Canada! The comparison I saw was put together by Newsweek or someone like that, hopefully they would look into it a little. It was Mid-Clinton if I recall, so things may be different now. As for $50K ($25/hr) being a poverty level, perhaps it is for those in some industries (software comes to mind) But in manufacturing or service industries it is not, unless you are in a big three factory. I don't know all that many factories here that pay that much, other than those in the auto workers unions. Mcdonalds managers DREAM about the day they could make that much. It IS an incentive to factories to go there. If your low paid employees are taking home more money thanks to a lower personal income tax rate, you don't have to pay as much in the first place. If wages for doing the same job are also lower even when you don't account for taxes, this is obviously an incentive. Homes almost always cost less here. Fuel costs more, which is obviously a major decision unless your trucks are always running to the States anyway, so then you don't care. I just looked at an old tax form of mine. Income was below $50000 for that year, and I paid 26% deductions. This covered everything, medical, full dental (including 50% of any purely cosmetic dental work), free eye glasses and testing, pay 5% of any perscription medications out of pocket, all federal and provincial income taxes, employment insurance, government pension plan contributions, the works. The only additional taxes I would pay are sales tax (15% split between provincial and federal, not on food) and property tax if I owned my house (perhaps $200 per month for a decent house in this city) As for corporate taxes, I have no idea. People here make a big deal out of it if the government offers tons of freebies to corporations. Pro-sports are a prime example, all over the US cities and states spend hundreds of millions of taxpayers dollars to GIVE a team a stadium, no strings attached. Heads would roll down the streets if that happened here. Like Banzai said, as soon as the incentives dry up, the factory is closed and gone. In automotive, everytime they come out with a new car, the factory is completely stripped to a bare shell and all the machinery is replaced. If you're doing that anyway, the cost of the building itself is not that important. If the next state over offeres you $15 million worth of tax breaks to move there, you're gone. The highest sales tax I know of in the us is 9% and it's similar it does not tax food, this again would have to be taken into account when calculating the "effective" tax rate. I dunno where the newsweek article is but from a few seconds of research it's pretty clear that business taxes are similar between the two countries however person income taxes are not, from what you have said from your own taxes and what tax rates you can grab right off of irs.gov website, rough shotting some sales tax, Canada's effective tax rate is SIGNIFICANTLY higher then the US effective tax rate. Granted that does no include healthcare, but hell weren't you guys bragging about "free" healthcare a few weeks ago??? So if it's free we can't really deduct it from your effective tax rate now can we? I can buy and do pay for my own health insurance and it doesn't factor out to be in the 11% to 16% of my income, I'd say you guys are either getting fucked on your "free" healthcare or are paying a shitload more in taxes then we are, look at it however you want, at the end of the day Americans pay less in taxes then Canadians. |
Originally Posted by TYSON' date='Jun 2 2004, 08:22 AM
As for corporate taxes, I have no idea. People here make a big deal out of it if the government offers tons of freebies to corporations. Pro-sports are a prime example, all over the US cities and states spend hundreds of millions of taxpayers dollars to GIVE a team a stadium, no strings attached. Heads would roll down the streets if that happened here.
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Originally Posted by banzaitoyota' date='Jun 2 2004, 08:24 AM
No-one is forcing those unionized workers to hold a union JOB. It boils down to the fact that they (workers) want something for nothing. This is a FREE country. Why should some UNION BIGWIG dictate to me how I spend my money?
If I want to shop somewhere I have a freedom to walk into the store without being harassed by picketeers, who are sometimes just hired help to picket. Look at the PUBLIX strike back in the 90's; the union could not musteer enough support in its own ranks to make an effective pickett line, so they hired temps to wave their placards. If a man cant negoitiate a salary he is happy with, he needs to go elsewhere to work. like I said before I don't really agree with unions, but I do think that these guys deserve at least what they already have. |
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