z-beater

Personally I would just go with a S5. I think that would be a little easier. But how do things really get innovated, right? It is people like you that make new ideas etc.



Good luck.

Z

1gendreemer

As food for thought for those following this discussion, here are some shots of the respective intake gaskets for the FD and GSL-SE, taken from the Mazdatrix site.



From the manifold to the motor, yes, there are six intake ports on the GSL-SE “block”, but notice how the four ports on the FD manifold essentially cover the same area. Unfortunately the bolt pattern looks like some match up and some do not have a corresponding hole/bolt. It also looks like there is some places that do not get covered totally. It would take fabircation at best.

FD











FB











HOWEVER:

Between the UIM and LIM on both cars, the port and bolt configuration looks very close, so maybe this is where I’ll try to mate things up if the project moves forward.



FD







FB



That’s all assuming the pictures are in the same scale…



As for the exhaust, I’ve read several places that the manifold from the FD will bolt right up after you grind off some extra material from the GSL-SE motor. The gaskets for the FD is one per each exhaust hole and the GSL-SE has them joined, so I can’t compare them in the way I did the intake gaskets though.



I'm pulling in the FD tonight and am gonna start ripping and tearing (actually carefully removing). We'll see what comes of this! or

At any rate, it's been fun researching this, and maybe my car really will be seeing pavement soon because of it!

z-beater

No offense but there is a lot of work to be done here. On my entire build the oen thing that I dreded doing was the wiring. You will need both FSM's in order to make sure that the caris wired correctly. One little mistake can be total disater. Not to mention little gremlins that may live in your wiring for a while if something is not done correctly. Actually installing the UIM is not the problem.



One thing that you might want to check into is the UIM take off point. What I mean by this is where the gasket connects the two pieces. With the FB SE mani it appears that there is a little less tubing heading downward towards the LIM. This also might be becasue the bulky UIM though. Don't forget that you will also need the TB and elbow from the FD. I do not think that the SE TB will mate up to the FD UIM. Also you will need a FMIC and all the tubing.



Sound like you have the turbos in line. I do not know too much about this. Have you ever considered running a S5 turbo? It would probably be easier. No way as cool on a SE block but other 2nd gen owners have done this to their N/A block.



While you are in there you might as well go to the trouble of removing that rats nest. Also there are other small little items such as the Presure chamber that you will need to the 3rd gen twins.



When it comes down to it there is a lot of small little components that you will need to control those turbos. It is going to be a headache in comparrison to the S5 turbo. And you will for sure need to FULLY, and I bean FULLY understand the 3rd gen wiring.



Z

1gendreemer

No offense taken - I'm well aware of how involved it's going to be even if I get the hardware to mount up (btw I was planning on using the FD TB etc and removing the rats nest). The electronic part is going to be a HUGE challenge, but I don't really care how long it takes and all the parts are free, so why not? Tuning is probably also going to be a bitch. Worst case scenario, I'll end up spending some cash and go stand-alone and single turbo. Just for the sake of making it work though (lots of sentimental reasons too), I'd really like to have the twins on there. Maybe going non-sequential would simplify things...

We trailered the FD to my house last night and she's in the garage! Tonight, I'm going to drain fluids and start pulling off parts in preparation for yanking the motor, exhaust, and electronics! I should know before I go to bed if the intake mani is going to work!

z-beater

If you have the whole engine etc, just do a direct swap. Trust me you will be much happier this way(well as far as work goes)



Non-seq will make things a little more simple. So would a standalone. But if you are up to the challenge I say go for it. As long as you enjoy the work and have a DD, why not right?

woundup7

Do you even know what the compression ratio in a SE motor is?

Do you know what it is a S-5 T2 ?



Explain to me how you will detune the motor i.e. the boost, by bleeding it off?

A manual boost controler or even a electric one can only increase boost above the stock level. Bleed some wastegate pressure off and watch what happens.



Sell your parts on e-bay and buy a S-5 turbo motor and tranny. about 1200-1500. Use the front cover, oil pan, pickup, and front motor mount. Now your motor is in. You will have upgrade the fuel pump, wire in a ecu, fab a tranny mount, FC downpipe will fit, etc etc, etc, I afraid to add up how much i have spent going with a S-5 swap, and I know Z beater will probably double what I spent going with the FD swap, but his car is still brown [attachment=36203:attachment][attachment=36204:attachment]

1gendreemer

..Didn't know about that with the boost controller and wastegate. This NA guy is learning more every day! Also, I did already look up the compression ratios: GSL-SE 9.4:1 , FD 9.0:1. It's a little higher than optimal, but not crazy.



I got the manifolds off the FD on Friday and the UIM does in fact bolt right up to the GSL-SE LIM...if it were about two inches higher! I have a buddy who will be fabbing up the necessary extensions...



For those out there still scratching their heads as to why I'm pushing to use my GSL-SE motor and the FD parts, you should know that it's purely sentimental. The SE, I've had since high school and is my one and only automotive true love. The FD donor car is my best friend's and he's heartbroken to get rid of her and is anxious to see the parts in action on my car for years to come. It's not about what's easy or what would make more power. It's about wanting to use these parts because they mean something.

Plus it's a challenge!

z-beater

Woundup, you are more than correct here. There is so much work that you are leaving out here dreamer. My car has been down for 8 months already and it is a pain in the *** because I want to drive it so bad. Sometimes I find myself just sitting in the car because I miss it.



A s5 swap is easier than what you will go through. However if you are up for the challenge... here is the reccomended build according to me.



SE block

FD manifolds

FD injectors

FMIC(not stock)

single turbo

standalone

S5 trans



However with this you will be looking at a pretty penny. And not to mention that the higher compression may produce a little more hp but your engine life will be shortened.



S5 is the easiest and cheapest way. Trust me I have way too much into my swap. You do not want to do the same.



Not that this build cannot be done. It is more than possible. Just you have to ask the question...is it worth it?

woundup7

If you manage to fab an adapter plate to mount the fd upper to the se lower, what about the injector situation. On my s-5 the injectors all fit in the lim. I assume it is the same for a se, but you will only have two injector bungs. se is 680 cc x2 1360, fd is 550 cc x2 plus 850 cc x2 is 2800 cc staged. What is your plan for that, you could run to extra injectors on the t.b with r.e elbow. I appreciate what you are trying to do. But I would never have the patience for it. Z beater has been on his car forever and he has a complete front clip from a fd. What he is doing is incredibly hard, and he is pretty smart guy. I spent two weekends just sorting out my s-5 harness and tying it into my fb harness. You are also going to have to mount in all the fd senders into the engine to work the ecu, some of which dont have holes/ports on the se block. i.e knock sensor. Dont forget the electric omp or it is limp mode. I am not trying to **** in your cheerios, but it will be a battle.

Good Luck

1gendreemer

Yeah the project is going to be a complete PITA...but it's the "play car and I really have all the time in the world to dedicate to it. I haven't really figured out how I'm going to clear the injector hurdle. I still don't have everything out of the FD yet. I'd like to get that car out of my garage before I go any further. Once I have more room, I'll disassemble both motors (ends up I am getting the full FD motor as well), and see what works together. I don't have the LIM off the FD motor yet and can't really see the "fuel rail" yet to get an idea of what it looks like and how it attaches to the motor, and if I can use it. I had an idea about using just that intermediate housing that holds the injectors from the FD motor, but I don't know if that's even possible yet. I've got so much research to do!

All the sensors are going to be a huge issue as well. Worst case scenario, I give up and go stand-alone.