well, im trying to talk my dad into getting me an RX-7 for my next car (he really wants to get me a 4 door automatic civic *shudders*). im currently 16 and driving around a crappy VW fox... and i was wondering if there was anything i should know about doing this swap, like how much it will cost, how hard it will be, what tranny to use, length of driveshaft ect.



and id hate to ruin the car after i get it, so i plan to take the car very lightly and have the car for awhile before doing the swap as to be even more comfortable driving a rwd car.



and also what are the advantadges of the fd over the fc after this swap, if there are any. and if its a suspension thing, could i change the fc to have a smilar set-up as the fd? any hjelp is apprectiated, thank ya much.

its not a cheap swap, figure at least 10k for an fd and 15-20 for an fd. the engine is easier to fit in the fc. you can use the stock tranny and drive line, but you need an aftermarket ecu, intercooler, etc etc



mike

do you mean 10K for an fc and 15-20 for an fd? does that include the engine price? and is there a stronger tranny i could use that can take the abuse of the extra rotar? also could you tell me of a good company to get driveline related parts from? and one more...how much room is there under the hood for piping and the sort? (sorry for all the questions)

That's just for the cars. you are talking at least another 15k to do the swap correctly. Final price, up to 25k with an FC.

the stock turbo tranny will hold up to about 450lbsft, there really isnt another great option for trannies. most aftermarket ones run about 10k just for the tranny and theres always a short coming, either its no overdrive, not much stronger, wont shift at high rpm etc.



the fc has plenty of room for piping, and so does the fd.



mike

i have 2 mechanic friends to help me with the swap https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png . and they were gonna help me change the fox to rwd, so i dont think this will be that much of a problem to them.



i read somewhere on here that youll bang your head against the wall if you dont opt for the fd and do the swap, why is that?



my dads not going to help me buy a new car till im off to college, so im going to go pick up an fc pretty soon. and gthen save up all the money so i can either have him help me pay for the swap in the fc, or have him help me buy the fd and then save up for the swap in there.

you have to look at the context for that one, sidewinder really wanted an fd, so we told him to to an fd, because after all that work* he wouldnt have been happy with an fc.



mike



*figure about 300hours for an fc and 320 for the fd

i imgaine ill get the fc, and then get the fd and save up for it and do the swap with it so ill have a car while im doing the swap.

Why is the swap 300 hours? That doesnt even really make sense. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...O_DIR#>/11.gif

Don't get too excited trying to do everything at once. Buy an fc, drive it, see if you like it. Then you can decide what you want to do. Most people on here would agree that although having a 20b would be nice, it is not necessary if your goal is to go fast and have fun.

why doesnt it make sense? its not a simple bolt in swap, and there arent really any off the self parts to do it



mike

Exactly.You should know to you and your 3 rotor FC. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/BURNOUT.gif Everything is custom on these cars. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png

Did i mention you need lots of money https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...DIR#>/wink.png



If money not an issue, go all at it, make it better than petti or farrell, Use a FC vert, https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683827.gif

T2 verts are pimp. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683473.gif

it just doesnt seem to make much sense...i mean theirs engine mounts so i wont have to worry about that, and the T2 tranny works and drivline also works with it. so what are the 300 hours spent on?

Reconfigging the front end for a V-mount, plumbing in a second oil cooler, Custom sway bar. The list just keeps getting longer and longer. And I have a better equipped shop than most people and it will take me a while. John



PS, is anyone interested in me keeping a on-;ine diarey of my swap?

i would like to see it.

Yes, and ive never seen a vmount on a fc... https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/blink.png

yeah theres tons of little odds and ends to take care of. i'm about to rewire mine, and put in the e11, and and and



i would love to see a diary of your 20b swap, its hard though. maybe tom yang style?



mike

well with three of us doing it. (2 of whic are accomplished mechanics) and MAYBE a BMW stall ? https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png

He's V-mounting his FC?????I want pics banzai. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/blink.png

vmount = whaaa??? https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/dunno.gif

V-Mount!!! It's an IC/Rad combo positioned to look like a "V". With the V-Mount setup, air is transfered to both the Rad and IC equally since neither is blocking the other.





See, V-Mount...

Again...

but with that setup it seems as though the cooling on both of those arent as good as they normally are had they been vertical.

...when you put a vertical setup (i.e. front mount IC with vertical rad behind it) the air passes through the hot intercooler first. This heats the air, and that hot air then hits the radiator, causing it to loose effiency. That in turn will give you higher water temps. With a Vmount setup, the rad and the intercooler get their own air, keeping everything cool.

btw great pics srce

errr....what i meant was that it seems like the ic isnt going to be getting as much air as it would with a vertical set-up.

its a bit of a tradeoff. Vmounts are the best at keeping all the components happy

do rotaries actually run hot enough to where youd actually ned to do this? ive never ever heard of anyone doing it with their piston engines.

Banzai, definetly do a diary https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png



No it's not necessary to run a V-mount, but every little bit helps, and yes rotaries run much hotter than, as j9fd3s said, the uppy downy motor.

stupid uppy downy engines. whats the stock redline on the 13B engines and 20B engines? isnt it around 8K or so, which only super uppy downy engines get.

Many people on this forum have revved beyond 8k numerous times....

the rotary has a higher surface to volume ratio in the combustion chamber, so it puts out more heat than a similar sized pistonian. so for a 20b you need a BIG radiator



mike

it all makes sense now. now i DEFINATELY want to see the vmounted setup https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png

me too, i wanna know where its gonna fit.

might have to get a fiberglass front end thats a bit longer?

so where is the diary I am confused

300 hours is a bit conservitive :P



Make sure you think long and hard before you just drop a 20b in a FC. I was lucky enough to see this process unfold over 2 years on one here in Okinawa. It was built for street drags and the occasional romp at the track (3-5 times a year) I have also watched Dragon start his process on getting his 20b installed in his FD. Both swaps started with NON daily driven cars, both cars had most mounts, intercoolers, wiring fuel systems, suspension work etc done before the motors went into the bay. The FC's owners name is Beau, and has quite a bit of rotary experince. And if you read through here Dragon does as well. Both of these individuals work on their cars within 30ft of each other in 2 seperate garages. Everything has to be fabricated, lots of plannning and fitting is needed. (2 days just to get an oil cooler mated to the car the way the owner wanted it)



Being that you are 16 I think it is great that you have dreams of a 20b in the car, but in your case I would look at getting a turbo II and starting from there. You will rebuild your engine at least once while learning the ways of the rotary. You will find over time that your car becomes part of your family, and that you have to decide on food, or the new intercooler you just saw on E-Bay. Just droppping in a stock ported 20b is a chore, and not for the weak @ heart. It will be a tedious project, and you will think of throwing in the towel more and more as the engine takes up space in your house, garage or storage shed. Now you may just want a stock 20b for a while, but understand as most of here are looking to get the last ounce of performance in these engines, stock will not keep the smile on your face for long.



In both cases of the cars I have seen built both owners started with a stock block and port to get everything fitted, running and tweaked, each individual although highly skilled rotary fanatics, still had to farm out some of the work (FC: exhaust manifold and intake manifold, and all the intercooler piping) and they both transfer services between each other including tools. Dragon has been fitting the engine in a spare FD for a little over 6 months, and just now has decided to begin the project in his own.



I say 300 hrs is conseritive because something always comes up, money is never where you want it to be when you need it NOW. and the more you get closer to getting it done, the more frustrated you will become.

300hours is a guestimate based on how long it took me to do mine (barebones, stock engine and turbos), or 6 months of weekends.

i prolly have another 200 or so hours into it since it was running, this is only the 20b swap too cause i still have the same shitty brakes the car came with



mike