Dysfnctnl85

I'm so confused.



I've been using crimping/splicing not just because it's more convenient, but soldering things in an engine bay is just begging me to really mess something up.



If I'm doing it wrong I need to be told though.

banzaitoyota

Yes I am. IF you solder to hot the joint is weak at the junction of the solder and the wire. Soldering CORRECTLY is a skill that is achieved only thru repititious practice. I would much rather have a properly performed crimp then a hacked soldering job. Look at the solder joints in the un-terminated Haltech harness, they are awful and these are performed by supposedly knowlegible people. Buy the PROPER Crimping tool and the Proper crimps and sleep well at night knowing you have a good connection.



John



Another interesting article:

A couple interesting things to note about soldering vs crimping...



crimping, properly done, produces a gas tight seal (important to prevent

corrosion) between the conductors as well as good mechanical connection. A

good crimped connection deforms the metal sufficiently past the yield point,

but not too much, so that the "spring back" keeps the connection secure,

even under thermal cycling (the coefficient of expansion of the two metals

might be different) and vibration. I might add that casually getting the $5

crimpers out and cranking down on the connector is probably not "properly

done".. you need fairly well machined tooling, the right equipment, and raw

connectors that are consistently manufactured.



Soldering certainly does the gas tight seal (if done right), but, remember,

"solder is not structural". It is quite brittle and work hardens. If

you're in an environment that has lots of thermal cycling and/or vibration,

soldered joints are more likely to fail, unless efforts are made to remove

the stress from the solder joint (i.e. the wire is mechanically attached

some other way). There is also a fair amount of art and science in the

selection of the particular solder alloy, the flux, and the cleaning

process.



One certainly can't say that, universally, solder or crimp is a better way

to go. One can bungle either..



For the original question, I'd go with good quality crimp on spade lugs.

banzaitoyota

http://www.molex.com/tnotes/crimp.html#rules

banzaitoyota

http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf

banzaitoyota

I will use RAYCHEM Solder Splices in certain situations, but these are special purpose connections that DO NOT use a soldering tool. Adn they do have performance based on the proper installation. Like I always say: The right tool for the right job.

j9fd3s

i personally perfer solder over crimp, but i dont have a good crimp tool

RETed

So how much does a mil-spec, ratcheting crimper cost?

Last time I checked, it was a lot more than my $5 30W Radio Shack soldering irons (even though I throw them away after the first use).



I realize that a proper crimp connection is superior, but I think for the DIY enthusiast, it's easier to teach proper soldering techniques with a more economical soldering iron.



Also, "mil-spec" connectors (I use 3M stuff, but do they count?) are not very easy to get nor are they "cheap".



Through all my years of soldering electrical connection in the automotive environment, I've never had a single solder joint fail, period.

Now, I typically heat shrink or double tape (3M Temflex 33+) my connections, and I always bundle wires or secure them with wire ties for stress relief - having loose, hanging wires is asking for trouble in the first place.



Economically speaking, soldering is just the more practical option.

I use a $20 Channel-Lock "staking tool" for any crimps that I need to do when soldering is not an option, but I don't have quality crimp connectors available all the time.

We got TONS of cheapie made-in-Taiwan crimp connectors with the nasty Nylon "insulators", but I'm sure there are not considered up to your standards for a proper crimp connection; I only use them when I have to as a last resort or the customer doesn't want to pay for the good stuff.



As a side note, I noticed that all female spade 0.250" crimp connectors used on Bosch relays tend to melt and burn when using them for high current applications - i.e. electric fan, running continuous 15A to 20A loads. Looking at the connectors, I think the initial surge of current is just too much for the crimp connetion. I'm trying to solder these connections now, and if I am successful (see below), they do not "melt" or burn like before; the solder connection is just superior in this case. The hard part is to kept the relay housing from melting from too much heat!





-Ted

banzaitoyota

You can purchase a racheting crimper with a set of dies for ~ 45. While not mil-spec it will produce a gas-tight crimp.



Any metod of connection has its pluses and minus's. IMHO the quality of a solder joint is highly dependent on the SKILL of the solderer. And from what I have witnessed in production items (Specifically the Haltech Flying Lead Harness) I AM NOT IMPRESSED!!!!! Soldering when done CORRECTLY is great: BUT there are many variables that affect the finished product. Which is why I prefer crimps for MOST applications.



By using the proper tool and die, a quality crimp and quality wire I have ELIMINATED most of the variables. Therefore: If I use the correct size connector and test pull the crimp I am done.



I look at the economics of it like this: Is it worth popping a high $$$$$ engine over a $100 investment in tools?





On the relay: Got pics.



BTW, its nice to civilly discuss both sides of a complicated issue. Lets keep it going

j9fd3s

we stopped using most of the haltech harness altogether, we cut off the relays and fuses, there are 2 reasons for this



1. The car already has the efi wiring and fuses, we just keep them (fb/fc/fd, for the 510 i'm going to have to use the whole haltech harness). this way the factory fuses in the fuse box still do what they say they do.



2. the haltech crimps and solders are not so good. i remember i bought a new e6k and i unplugged the relay to pass it thru the firewall and not only did the connector pin come out but i also got half the wire. add to that i dont trust those bosch relays for anything important, this is a situation where you want the $100 mazda part instead of the $3 peice of junk. i should point out that that bosch relay is used by ford, and if they use it it must be crap.



it was kinda funny we went to an air show this summer and we got to look inside a survelence blackhawk, and i was like oOOoo i get to see mil spec wiring! well turns out they just toss the stuff over the rafters, theres no harness, no wrap nothing. totally unsuitable for a car IMO

Dramon_Killer

Does this mean my haltech harness is gonna fail now?



All these bad things about it is making me worry...