I gave it a go last night.. Got the pumps at constant 12V, primed lines, TRIPLE checked everything.



It spins fine. Nice pulses.. Just no fire. Everything seems in check.. no leaks, nothing like that.. I'm guessing it has something to do with either the PFC or the FPR. I'll hit at it more tonight.. If anyone has any ideas throw me them!



Question: What kind of timing should be on the leading and trailing? It's at -25 for both.. I really don't know much about the PFC.. I thought it had base maps?? I found how to set the secondary injector size.. But it only goes up to 1500?? Sorry to keep bothering you guys.. If anyone can help me get the computer setup it would ROCK.

Check for spark. Get a spare plug laying around plug it in and ground it and crank see if you get a spark. If you get spark, look at fuel. Make sure the relays are working and look a FP.





-Ryan

Thanks Ryan. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png

Is the ignitor plugged in?



Is it even trying to start?

Doesn't seem like so... Just turns and turns.. No sputtering or anything.. :(

That timing seems awfully retarded. I think it's normally around 0 ish for cranking.



But the PFC only shows values in comparison to some base value you can't see without the Power Excel / Datalogit software so it might be right anyway. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub..._DIR

You will need a datalogit to change the fuel injector size to a 1600 ro 1680 setting. The commander will not adjust that high. Have you spun it with the plugs out to make sure your fuel injectors are firing? or you could use a noid light to check and make sure that they are firing.



On the plug side, test to make sure you are getting spark first off.....if so, check your timing and split to make sure that they are firing at the right time.....not sure what the right time is though.



Also, when I first had to start my motor last fall, I had to ATF the motor a few times to get some compression up when I cranked it....that jelly substance they put in the motors to keep the seals lubricated makes it hard to start....you have to burn all that crap out......and after a few mis attempts of starting it, I had to unflood it a few times, and then try again....after a few hours she finally kicked over.

I'll run through all that tonight. Thanks!

hope your exhaust is point out of the garage if you are going to ATF the engine...btw that boosts compression like a charm https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png

dats what i was gonna suggest, cause its the same thing that happened with my car. it made a sound when being cranked as if it didnt have enough power. ATFed it for a while, and then it turned on...

check the main fuse.... i had the same problem last week and the car just kept turning and yeah, check for spark

DO NOT ATF YOUR BRAND NEW MOTOR. ATF is what you use for OLD motors. TRUST ME. I normally use a ton of vasoline/oil to assembly my motors(especially this last one) and they always start on the first try.



Like everybody said. only 2 things you need...spark and fuel.

yeah definitely no atf...



make sure she's not flooding, crank iwth the plugs out and see if theres any mist



although if you've been cranking a bunch and no fire, it should be flooded. If you don't find mist when you pull the plugs and crank, your injectors are not injecting fuel IMO.



confirm fuel

confirm spark

confirm roughly correct timing

confirm compression (make sure it's not flooded...)

confirm air (no rags or animals in intake..)

with all of the above present, you have a running motor.



if you require more lube in the chambers because fuel has washed all the oil away, use a bit of MMO leave the ATF on the shelf.

Yeah... I'm getting a little frustrated. Not sure what the hell is up. I have fuel. But it's not making pressure at the regulator. At least the regulator isn't showing any on the gauge. I know there's pressure because I took off the empty port on one side of the reg and got wet... literally



I don't think the injectors are firing. I'm running a wide open DP and I see no signs of fuel. Don't even smell it.. Not sure if it's related to the regulator or not.. I'm not even sure if there is spark but at this point I guess it really doesn't matter as there isn't fuel to burn anyway.



I KNOW the pumps and lines are right. 2 Walboro 255s at 12V is hard to miss.. I just don't get what the hell is going on at the regulator.. To be honest, I'm not sure WHY the injectors wouldn't be firing... UNLESS it's ECU related. Like I said, I know **** about the PFC, only that there are base maps (I checked) in it.. I looked at the ignition maps and they seem reasonable. (Compared them to a map I found here). Nothing that would render the car un startable..



Would the 1680's have something to do with it? I haven't hooked up the datalogit yet, so the secondaries are incorrect.



This sucks because there is a ~800HP GT40 Supra at my shop right now that I could.... buy..

Regulator should be showing pressure. You went into the rails and out to the regulator side port?



Have you got a multimeter? Check for voltage at your injectors.



Secondaries shouldn't be firing while cranking anyway.

Justin,

I dont think the secondaries would have anything to do with it at idle as they wouldnt be on...but it could possibly be one of those codes where the ECU freaks out and wont let anything happen. The Regulator seems fishy...is there anyway to take it off and test it (run air through it with a compressor and see if it registers/comes out the other side)?

if the pumps are running, and you don't see pressure, and your FPR is plumbed properly, I'm going to have to say your fuel pumps are wired wrong, reversed polarity.... they're trying to pump into the tank rather than out (it's just a dc motor..)

Not sure what you're asking (or that you are sure what I meant LOL)



Goes Feed to Primary, primary to secondary, secondary to port on the right of the regulator, then out the bottom to the tank. I opened up the spare port on the left side of the regulator and it was full of fuel.



I gotta take a break now, as I popped the big inline fuse to the battery (Cheapo)

Double checked them. Positive they are right.



However, if they were wrong.... Fuel would still travel to the rails right? It's showing on both sides of the regulator..

Did you adjust the FPR to allow some pressure? it might be all the way open or something?



Did you make any adjustments to it?

Zach, you're right. Not sure if I can test the regulator... but it's worth a shot.

if the pumps are backwards there wouldnt be any fuel in the rails, at least not in my experience (it happened to me before rewiring ****)



the guy who suggested checking the FPR adjustment, good call... right when I read that it felt like an anvil landed on my head.



so 9b3 did you adjust the FPR?

Yeah... I did. Nothing changed. I've GOTTA be missing something somewhere.. My gut tells me it's the ECU, as I'm 99.99% sure the rest is right. I've spent so much time making sure of it... DOWN TO THE WIRE if you know what I mean... This is SO frustrating..



If it *Could* be the ECU, where would I look? Anyone familiar with these things? I refuse to go the the club, so I'm badgering you guys.. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png



The settings *seem* to be right... Fuel is there.. Spark is there.. In the maps at least.. God I wa't this thing to go! I's KILLING ME!!!



Tell you what.. I need to go get another fuse..



I'll start ALL over again when I get back..



I'll start with FUEL. As that is a KNOWN problem, and can be worked outside the ECU.. Then I'll go from there.. Might just reverse the wires on the pumps for the hell of it. I figure with 2 Walboros at 12V and -6 all the way around to a wide open regulator... I should see some ******* pressure!!!!!



Thanks again guys.. I really hope I can meet all you guys some day!



Justin

I know when I first had trouble getting my car to start it was also fuel related. I was running an Aermotive A1000 and it does not have a schraeder (sp) valve on it, so after you turn the car to the on position and the fuel pump primes the system, it will not hold any pressure, it simply falls back to zero unless it is being cranked on. I had the wrong fittings going into the regulator and it was blocking the return line from recieving any fuel. Are you sure you are using the Boss style fittings and not the beviled style of FPR fittings? That would stop pressure from reaching the regulator which would more or less block the system from running. Can you remove the return line and turn on the system to see if you are getting any fuel to the return line?



Just get a noid light to check if your injectors are firing. But to see 0psi at the FPR is wrong...you should have fuel there as soon as the car is turned on, it should prime and deliver enough fuel to fill the system. Are you using any relays in the wiring system?

If you are running a PFC, it is not the ECU, it will start with base maps, no problem.

the FPR needs to be closed for fuel pressure, not opened.

Justin, you need to CLOSE the FPR. Close the FPR to gain fuel pressure

would there be a reason why you would keep popping fuses?

I'm also running an Aeromotive FPR.. I know there is fuel IN the FPR.. However, I'm not sure if it is returning to the tank.. I pulled the return line at the tank and there was nothing in it.. But the feed line was nice and full and blasted me in the face LOL. I'm REALLY confused as to why I get no pressure readings on the gauge.. I might yank it and see if the port is blocked or something..



Next step is to remove the return line at the tank and turn on the pumps.. I'll know if pressure is going through the system then. There isn't anything in between the regulator and the tank on the return line that would cause blockage... So I'll know if the regulator (Or fittings) are the cause..



Question: If the fuel isn't returning, that doesn't mean the car won't run does it? It'll just flood real bad right? I know there is pressure to the regulator... Just not sure where it goes afterwards..



'Nother dumb question: What's a noid light?



Nope, no relays in the wiring... Other than the stock relay which is jumpered to 12V constant..



Thanks VERY much for the help. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png

If you used anything like teflon to seal the gauge and fuel line threads, its very possible that it could have come unraveled and blocked the ports...ya never know. Not too sure about the whole non-return situation though.

perhaps you have the fpr hooked up wrong?





how is it hooked up right now?

noid is the name of a special resistance light that plugs into the injector harness and flashes so you can see the injector pulse. some guys use test-lights but sometimes it will burn the injector driver. it lets you know the injectors are getting their signal. no return is like what you do for a "dead head" fuel pump test to see it's max press. i would think it would flood out because of the huge pressure.

I would check your fitting going into the FPR. I know I was using a beviled fitting instead of a boss style fitting with a flat end on it, and it was pressed up against the fpr unit itself, you can see a small blue circle on the inside of the regulator where the fitting was jammed up against it. So fuel was getting to the regulator and going no where, just blocking the line. Check that first. If that is ok, remove the return line from the bottom of the regulator and turn the car to the on position to prime the system, and fuel should pour out the bottom of the regulator. Have another person help you on that, so he can yell at you when fuel starts dumping out....if it does. If not, you have a problem.



TampaFD explained a noid light, get one, and test your injectors.

any updates?

He's probably still asleep! https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png

wake up damnit

Sorry, no updates. It got cold out again and I didn't feel like ******* with it. I'm going to the garage in a bit, hopefully with something to talk about..



Thanks for all the tips.



Oh, I did close the FPR.. I just said wide open to mean all the way closed.. lol

Damn,Wanna give me some money?You obviously can afford it. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/bigok.gif Good luck.

...i bet he picked up the car and threw it off a cliff or something https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683358.gif https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683358.gif

Progress:



Got fuel pressure. The lines in the tank swelled and split, hence the 0 pressure. That's fixed. Now I got it to a nice even 50. It holds solid.



Pulled plugs. Wet. Not SOAKED, but wet. LOTS of grease on them from the rebuild. Installed new ones. Still no fire.



Headed back out to pull plugs to see if the injectors are actually firing.. I *think* they are, but it's not flooding like I would have imagined. At the same time, I'll be checking spark.. With any luck, I'll shoot some flames. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png



And just for fun... Here's a pic of the Supra. Fast **********er.