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Well i'm really getting screwed over. For those of you who dont know i'm 17. Well my dad called the shop were i am getting work done and told them to drop the TO4E and 1300 CC secondary inj off of it. And but Non-Sequintial Twins back on. Not only am i not getting any money back due to labor but this also means that they are putting that whole mess of vacume lines back on. And i'm not getting a ******* penny due to labor. My father who is a god damn ass hole say's i have to much power with the T04E. What do you guy's think i shoudl do i spent too much money on the car to drop the ******* T04E. Any one have any idea's and how bad is this goin to be?
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Have him speak to a shop that knows what they are doing. They will probably explain that the car will be more RELIABLE with the single turbo. Have them explain how a WASTEGATE works, and have the shop that has your car put in a 10 psi wastegate and no external boost control. Viola, your car now will not make anymore power then is possible with non-sequential turbos.
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he just dosent under stand. And the shop is all for the ******* twins ass holes. But the more i look at this the more i see i'm losing. I paid more for the car in the 1'st place because of the single plsu the twins are junk and cant do ****. At least in comparison to my T04E. All this not to mention that T04E for Twins is the worst trade i have ever heard of.
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Why would the shop listen to your dad if their working on your car?
Thats fucked.... |
at 17 that might be a little too much for you. i wouldn't let my 17 yr old son have that kinda car, but i'm only 20 now so **** that ****. i'd say that unless you get through to your dad your screwed.
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get all the work and sell the car
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j/k...... be happy with what you have
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Yeah i'v talked to engough people it looks like i'm fucked. The thing is i'm paying for it and i'm not going to pay for what i dont want. So if my dad wants to be an ass and do the twins i'm never goin to pay him for the car. so i lose the 7 but he's stuck with 23k in bills. I have this angle covered i just dont want to go into it. So i loose the 7 but dont have to pay for ****. Yes i am an ass liek that. If you were me and had a dad liek mine you woudl be too.
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Why not wait till your 18 and then put the stuff on your car then the shop has no reason to listen to your dad you are an adult! Get a handle on driving in factory trim then add more power. Seen way too many cars get totaled because of young drivers with too much power! I am not much older. I won't be running a single for about another 6-8 months. Gonna run the twins non-seq w/ 1300cc till then. This will give me a chance to work on tuning until then.
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I hate people who don't understand ****.. The To4e will increase the reliability of the engine, makes maintenance easier, and will only make the same power as the twins. when the to4e goes bad you order a overhaul kit for a garret standard shaft turbo and pay $100 and it's fixed.. When the twins go to junk you pay for a used set of turbo's at $500-1k.. and have to go threw hell to get them off and back on the car. The twins will cause massive heat soak and back pressure and blow the engine easy as ****.. tell your dad to go read some of the forum or tell him to read my post.. The shop is probably lieing to your dad as well because they get to work on the car and make more $ when it blows.. Tell your dad that sombody that is 32 and has built over 30 13B's says he needs to listen to reason and ask him if he's going to pay for the new turbos when the stock twins go to **** or if he's going to pay for a new engine when it blows.
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Originally Posted by Dragon' date='Jun 2 2003, 11:52 PM
I hate people who don't understand ****.. The To4e will increase the reliability of the engine, makes maintenance easier, and will only make the same power as the twins. when the to4e goes bad you order a overhaul kit for a garret standard shaft turbo and pay $100 and it's fixed.. When the twins go to junk you pay for a used set of turbo's at $500-1k.. and have to go threw hell to get them off and back on the car. The twins will cause massive heat soak and back pressure and blow the engine easy as ****.. tell your dad to go read some of the forum or tell him to read my post.. The shop is probably lieing to your dad as well because they get to work on the car and make more $ when it blows.. Tell your dad that sombody that is 32 and has built over 30 13B's says he needs to listen to reason and ask him if he's going to pay for the new turbos when the stock twins go to **** or if he's going to pay for a new engine when it blows.
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Dragon if you want to give it a shot call him. My dad's a ass so just be like youd like to inform him on what's up. His name is charles chapman 724-696-4428, or any one else who wants to give it a shot, i'm on east coast time.
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does he have email? then we can just email him.... the whole fricken lot of us
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Sell me you T04E. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png
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I would take a lot of work to go from a single back to the stock twins. They would need the rat's nest and all those vacuum lines (if going seq.).
Like Dragon said, going from a single setup back to the stock twins is just plain dumb. |
Originally Posted by Leetheslacker' date='Jun 2 2003, 08:05 PM
Why would the shop listen to your dad if their working on your car?
Thats fucked.... You have the absolute coolest avatar that I have ever seen https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/bigok.gif |
No he doesnt have e-mail, he cant turn on a computer. But if you all call that should make an impression. And if it doesnt at least maybe it will piss him off. There is no way i'm paying for the car if it gets twins agin. My dad is a royal retard. He feels the T04E is too powerfull but the Non-S twins push the same power just they have 99million more probs. I cant stand stupid people either imagine how i feel livin with him.
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I was going to say, you could sell the T04E and get upgraded twins. I know its not the same for the reasons stated, but you can get the same power and your dad will be happy cuz you have "twin turbos".
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No he is working with the shop to **** me. He is making sure they dont give me too much power becuase you can push over 400 with twins. It's just a bunch of ****. And i'm ot paying for a car that he does this to. That's why i'm 99% sure i'm goin to lose the 7.
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I'm in Japan.. lol... so a phone call to the states would be a bit costly.. Here's what you do... you tell your dad if he goes back to the stock twins then you'll just have to scrape up $300 or so and buy a 150 shot of Nitrous Oxide.. or better yet tell him you found sombody thats going to give you there old system for free.. lol
Also what shop is it that your going threw? We'll put the word out to boycott them because it sounds like they filling your dad's head with a bunch of **** so they can make more $.. So we'll make it so they make less $... |
No it's not the shop, they are just going allong my dad forms all this **** based on what he knows and what he THINKS he knows. Which is of course nothing.
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If you woudl do me the huge favor or writing up every possable reason to not put twins on it then post that i will print it and let him read it. That woudl be great
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Reasons why you should not keep the stock twins and should use the To4e turbo kit...
First I'd like you to understand that a rotary engine is nothing like a piston engine. A piston engine can absorb and take some knocking with out breaking. Any kind of predetonation will kill a rotary engine. Even one knock will break an apex seal and necessitate a complete overhaul usually costing around 4k or more. I'd like you to read below as I explain some of the reasons why you shouldn't put the stock twins back on this car. The stock turbo's create too much backpressure that can cause hot spots and predetonation. They are a huge mass of cast iron that can cause heat soak that can also cause hot spots and predetonation. Since there are 2 turbo's there is 2 times the possibility of one of them breaking or going to **** The twin turbo's use several solenoids and many vacuum lines to control boost and the sequential transition, if they fail it can over boost and blow the engine. It is also very difficult to trouble shoot any problems that will come up due to the complex system. The stock twin turbo's flow the same amount of air as a To4E so it makes no difference that you are putting them back on the car for the purpose of making less power. People all over the world put To4e's on their cars for the sol purpose of making the car more reliable at the stock power levels. If they were going for high hp they would never even consider such a small turbo. If a To4E turbo wears out it costs $100 for an overhaul kit If the stock twins wear out good luck on finding a good used set for less than $500-1000 and be prepared to pay more if you want to overhaul them. It is easy to pull and fix a To4E, The stock turbo's are hell to remove and it will cost more to have them replaced. The stock twin manifold is prone to cracking due to heat soak and back pressure this will cause exhaust leaks and require removal of the entire turbo set up to fix and be very costly. If the to4e manifold cracks you weld the crack and your done A To4E is a small turbo; it is not even considered a performance turbo on an RX-7. It is however a very good reliability upgrade that can produce the same power as the stock turbo's and dramatically increase the life of the engine while maintaining excellent drivability while keeping the engine simple. The stock twin turbo system involving 3 actuators, 2 solenoids and a dozen or so vacuum lines a very prone to failure, especially on a car that is going on 10 years. I run a shop in Japan dedicated to building these cars and engines and I have been doing this now for over 5 years and I have a great deal of experience working on these cars. The idea of putting on the stock twin turbo's when you have a To4E kit is about the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. The To4E turbo will not make more power than the stock twin system, it will make the same power and increase the life of the engine and decrease the cost maintenance by a group. I strongly suggest you DON'T do what you are about to do and that you listen to reason.. |
Damn ya sold me on a single Dragon https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...DIR#>/wink.png
Hey Kid, not for nothing but if your old man doesnt agree, sell me your to4 https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png |
Well the T04E is goin as a trade for the twins if he does it. Aint that some ****. And i showed em the letter dragon thanks for the help. I'm wondering if the shop really has somthing to do with this now. It seems any good mech would never do that. Try to IM me again too i'd like to talk. Also what shoudl i say to the guys up at the shop other then what you wrote? Thanks for the help my dad siad he is goin to talk to the owner of the shop tommorrow then i'll see how really fucked up this situation really is.
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I have a set of 99 spec twins with 5k on them if your interested in a trade.
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Hell No i want my T04E. Get this the guy at the shop is claiming that the twins will have better drive ability. Haha what a joke. They both spool at 3k am i right dragon?
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they guy at the shop is gay... and if your dad is worried about you going to fast, than the T04E would be even better. the shop says the twins spool faster, which means that you have lag of the T04e.... which in turn means you can't boost as soon, which means your car is more slow. Pefect drivabilty for what your dad wants you to have.. nice and slow....
but yea i think the t04e should spool up just as quick as the twins... whats the AR on it? |
I've seen the T04E and it's pretty small and I beleive it's recomended for the 2nd gen' and T04R for the 3rd gen. At least that's what I get out of it from takakaira.com. Anyhow, you can retain the smog pump but loose the 25 feet of vacuum hose. How much more simple can you get then a rotary and a single turbo.
If the shop pulled the vacuum hoses allready, they will make bank on your dad. He is a walking lollipop (sucker). They will never get them put back correctly and you will return several times and he will continue to pay over an over again. I understand your dads intent though. I also beleive you are too young for this car but then it could be worse and you could have a crotch rocket. If you can show him responsibility with the car then next year he won't have a problem with it. If you start getting speeding tickets, he proved his point. You will have to compromise with him and learn how to work on the car yourself. Keep the single under your bed untill you turn 18 and install it yourself when the 2nd turbo goes out on the twins and it will. |
Originally Posted by -=RX-7 KID=-' date='Jun 3 2003, 03:54 PM
Hell No i want my T04E. Get this the guy at the shop is claiming that the twins will have better drive ability. Haha what a joke. They both spool at 3k am i right dragon?
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Here is a very fair comparison between stock twins and the T04E
Wargasm's Dyno Page You might have to hit refresh a couple times to make sure the chart data matches the table data. All are running about the same boost, all are between 325 - 360 hp. You can see the T04E has a fatter bottom end on EVERY case. About 50 hp worth @ 3750 RPM. Which one is more "DRIVEABLE" ????? https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...>/rolleyes.gif These all happen to be twin turbos modified for non-sequential. Use the page to create dyno charts for some of the sequential turbo cars. They have increadibly unpredictable torque curves. Mine seemed very steady while driving but some of these would be difficult and unpredictable to drive in the rain. Check this comparison. Wargasm's Dyno Page Which car do you want to drive home in the rain??? |
lol...sucks. T-04E turbo makes as much HP as twins...just makes **** easier. Do yourself a favor and do the work yourself;)
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Wow thanks for the charts and stuff. I'll see what i can do. From now on i think i am going to start doing the work myself. Of course with the help of you people.
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The other reason that he prob feels it will be too powerfull is becuase my car has the following mods as well.
Brand new Re-man 13B HKS BOV Racing Fuel Pump Front mount intercooler Apexi Power FC Apexi AVC-R Boost Controler Greedy Turbo Timer 3 Inch too 4.5 inch Exhaust with Greddy Muffler After-Market Rad ACT Street / Strip clutch H&R Springs HKS Cold Air Intake Re-Located Battery ( Passenger Side Bin ) I dont know how much that affects the HP what do you guy's think? |
Offer to remove the boost controller. Therefore you can't increase the boost above the wastegate spring.
Those people on the dyno page would have all the mods you do. |
Yea i might do that. I have a Dell lap top thou too. So i was wondering if any of you know where i can get the cable and program to tune the PFC from the laptop. If i keep the car i think it would be tight to hook the laptop up to the PFC. Plus i still got ride of the boost controler. But not really https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683329.gif
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You would be refering to the Datalogit... http://www.fc-datalogit.co.nz/
The shop is definitly trying to screw you.. Ie.. They can give you a stock set of crap turbos they have sitting in the corner and charge you more to install them due to the extra labor and then hock the to4e kit for a 1-2k to sombody else.. Since you have a already tuned power FC for the To4E kit, does your father also know that you car will have to be completly retuned after the stock twins go back on? Is this shop even capable of tunning the power FC? Are they even a authorized Apexi dealer with Power Excell software to tune the power FC? If they say they are just going to reset it and it will be ok they are full of ****. With the parts on your car it has to be tunned or it will be blown with in 6 months or less trying to run on the basic map the power fc comes with... What shop is this.. I really want to know who is feeding your father all this ****... |
My dad is on the phone right now with the shop i'll see what comes of this i doubt the outcome will be good thou.
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Great thanks to all of you. Your massive amount of posts have saved my T04E https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png . Looks like a victory for us. I'll find out exactly what they the shop said this time. But you convinced my dad to let me keep the T04E. God i cant give enough thanks to all of you guy's. and esspecialy you Dragon your letter helped a lot. They are goin to just tune it down to what ever it runs good at. The only reason the shop sugested the twind was becuase it was th eonly way they said they could take any more power away becasue my dad said the T04E was too much even at 10 psi. So they said why not go non-s twins. Well i dont know but it looks as if it's goin to work out. since even if they tune it down i can buy 1300 CC and drop my laptop on her to fix her up. But any way thanks again you guys saved my car.
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Glad to hear it. Now everyone give themselves a big pat on the back!
https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683664.gif Oops, missed! https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png |
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