E85 conversion
12-13-2006, 04:32 PM
#11
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Originally Posted by black93fd' post='848994' date='Dec 13 2006, 12:58 PM
also have any of you dallas guys seen it for sale around your area?
Check this thread..
http://e85vehicles.com/e85-texas.htm
Also, good post! Something interesting to talk about!
Oh, also this link to find the nearest alternative fuel stations...
http://afdcmap2.nrel.gov/locator/FindPane.asp
I searched for E85 in Alabama and there are "3" stations.. 1 near me is only for the government and 2 are too far away and not yet opened.. LOL!
IA, only shows 64 stations..
12-13-2006, 04:53 PM
#12
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Originally Posted by herblenny' post='849011' date='Dec 13 2006, 04:32 PM
Check this thread..
http://e85vehicles.com/e85-texas.htm
Also, good post! Something interesting to talk about!
Oh, also this link to find the nearest alternative fuel stations...
http://afdcmap2.nrel.gov/locator/FindPane.asp
I searched for E85 in Alabama and there are "3" stations.. 1 near me is only for the government and 2 are too far away and not yet opened.. LOL!
IA, only shows 64 stations..
hmm I dunno then man. I know im right in the corn belt and there opening a ethanol plant in buffalo which is like 5 to 10 miles from where i live and its supposed to be supporting e85 and in iowa alone they are in the process of building i think it was 15 or 16 other plants just like it that will support the e85 swap. Iowa is nothing but corn let me tell you..
It makes me think wether we like it or not were eventually going to have to swith to run e85 lol maybe not in the next few years but maybe next 10 years it will be the common fuel??
12-13-2006, 11:45 PM
#13
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okay well as of right now I have a rotary performance fuel pump, fuel lab regulator and aluminum fuel rail from rp with 850cc primaries and 1600cc secondaries along with a power fc with data-logit. NGK plugs and wires along with a second gen leading coil and a jacobs fc 1000. I think that should handle my needs but I really have no idea about the issue of it possibly eating up aluminum or God forbid the brass connectors and fuel hose if anyone learns that this could be a bad match please let me know.
12-14-2006, 12:11 AM
#14
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On a boosted vehicle alcohol cools the air charge considerably as it vapourizes. This is why alcohol cars often don't use an intercooler, not just because of the higher octane.
You hear stories of alcohol cars actually forming condensation and even frost on the intake manifold on the dyno, though I haven't actually seen this myself.
You hear stories of alcohol cars actually forming condensation and even frost on the intake manifold on the dyno, though I haven't actually seen this myself.
12-14-2006, 02:49 AM
#15
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Damn if the cooling affects are that drastic than I definetly shouldn't have done that coolant bypass to my throttle body.
I found this information on a government site and I thought it was somewhat informative.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/ruling...ailability1.htm
Ethanol: Ethanol (C2H5OH) is a liquid alcohol fuel (sometimes referred to as grain alcohol) currently made from corn. Like methanol, ethanol can be used to make a gasoline additive (ETBE), and is used in an 85 percent blend with gasoline to power flexible-fuel vehicles. Currently, the primary use of ethanol is as a gasoline blending component in gasohol, reformulated gas, and in wintertime oxygenated fuels.
Changes to ethanol flexible-fuel vehicles relative to gasoline vehicles consist mostly of a sensor which will detect the type of fuel being pumped to the engine, and sets of engine maps to ensure that the vehicle operates on ethanol in a manner consistent with its operation on gasoline. Additionally, since higher flow-rate fuel injectors are used to accommodate the lower energy density of ethanol relative to gasoline, software changes relative to injector control (injector duration, etc.) may be necessary to ensure proper operation of the fuel injection system.
Ethanol is corrosive to some metals, although less so than methanol. Metals recommended for use with ethanol include carbon steel, stainless steel, and aluminum (if suitably protected from corrosion). Ethanol is less prone to attack elastomeric materials, so many common elastomers can be used with ethanol without risk of deterioration. No special manufacturing techniques are needed for ethanol fuel systems for flexible-fuel vehicles.
I found this information on a government site and I thought it was somewhat informative.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/ruling...ailability1.htm
Ethanol: Ethanol (C2H5OH) is a liquid alcohol fuel (sometimes referred to as grain alcohol) currently made from corn. Like methanol, ethanol can be used to make a gasoline additive (ETBE), and is used in an 85 percent blend with gasoline to power flexible-fuel vehicles. Currently, the primary use of ethanol is as a gasoline blending component in gasohol, reformulated gas, and in wintertime oxygenated fuels.
Changes to ethanol flexible-fuel vehicles relative to gasoline vehicles consist mostly of a sensor which will detect the type of fuel being pumped to the engine, and sets of engine maps to ensure that the vehicle operates on ethanol in a manner consistent with its operation on gasoline. Additionally, since higher flow-rate fuel injectors are used to accommodate the lower energy density of ethanol relative to gasoline, software changes relative to injector control (injector duration, etc.) may be necessary to ensure proper operation of the fuel injection system.
Ethanol is corrosive to some metals, although less so than methanol. Metals recommended for use with ethanol include carbon steel, stainless steel, and aluminum (if suitably protected from corrosion). Ethanol is less prone to attack elastomeric materials, so many common elastomers can be used with ethanol without risk of deterioration. No special manufacturing techniques are needed for ethanol fuel systems for flexible-fuel vehicles.
12-14-2006, 07:01 AM
#16
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It doesn't affect your TB at all as EtOH will be flowed thru your injectors not your intake. Unless you want to add injectors on your elbow?? but still need primary and secondary.
What tyson was mention is your LIM. I personally can't see it frost or condense. Just as Tyson stated, EtOH vaporizes better than gas, hence it shouldn't condense as well as gas either.. And Frost, well, I use EtOH in my research and I could tell you that EtOH has a very very low freezing point. For EtOH to freeze, it has to be pretty damn cold. Hence why gas companies use EtOH in their gas during winter time.
I personally don't think it will damage anything on your car.. Maybe LIM.. But who cares! If it does, you wouldn't see the difference for years!
Rotor housings, well they are coated and it goes thru more abuse thru Apex seals than EtOH. If the EtOH seeps thru and possibly damaging your viton seals (which I don't think it will damage it) or coolant seals (also, I don't think EtOH will damage it). Only thing I could think of would be the injector seals but you have to understand, during winter, normal gas we buy have EtOH added to help from freezing.. And normal rubber (which EtOH will dry it out) the petrol will eat it up! Most of the car related especially internal O rings and such are resistant to Oil and EtOH..
So, if you really want to go E85, like I said, I think all you need is a good tune! But thats my opinion.. I guess if I had E85 stations around me, I wouldn't mind giving it a shot! Give it a try and see.. And tell us how everything goes.
If my understanding of Ethanol is correct, you might be able to run higher boost as exhaust temp is lower hence turbos will run cooler, hence intake charge is cooler, hence could go more aggressive timing, which all equates to more power at the end.. Someone correct me if my understanding of Ethanol is correct or wrong.
What tyson was mention is your LIM. I personally can't see it frost or condense. Just as Tyson stated, EtOH vaporizes better than gas, hence it shouldn't condense as well as gas either.. And Frost, well, I use EtOH in my research and I could tell you that EtOH has a very very low freezing point. For EtOH to freeze, it has to be pretty damn cold. Hence why gas companies use EtOH in their gas during winter time.
I personally don't think it will damage anything on your car.. Maybe LIM.. But who cares! If it does, you wouldn't see the difference for years!
Rotor housings, well they are coated and it goes thru more abuse thru Apex seals than EtOH. If the EtOH seeps thru and possibly damaging your viton seals (which I don't think it will damage it) or coolant seals (also, I don't think EtOH will damage it). Only thing I could think of would be the injector seals but you have to understand, during winter, normal gas we buy have EtOH added to help from freezing.. And normal rubber (which EtOH will dry it out) the petrol will eat it up! Most of the car related especially internal O rings and such are resistant to Oil and EtOH..
So, if you really want to go E85, like I said, I think all you need is a good tune! But thats my opinion.. I guess if I had E85 stations around me, I wouldn't mind giving it a shot! Give it a try and see.. And tell us how everything goes.
If my understanding of Ethanol is correct, you might be able to run higher boost as exhaust temp is lower hence turbos will run cooler, hence intake charge is cooler, hence could go more aggressive timing, which all equates to more power at the end.. Someone correct me if my understanding of Ethanol is correct or wrong.
12-14-2006, 08:18 AM
#17
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1600cc injectors are specifically made for alcohol. They come from Ford flex fuel vehicles (ie E85)
The condensation on the outside of the intake manifold would be from moisture in the air, not the alcohol itself.
The condensation on the outside of the intake manifold would be from moisture in the air, not the alcohol itself.
12-14-2006, 08:37 AM
#18
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Originally Posted by TYSON' post='849085' date='Dec 14 2006, 06:18 AM
1600cc injectors are specifically made for alcohol. They come from Ford flex fuel vehicles (ie E85)
The condensation on the outside of the intake manifold would be from moisture in the air, not the alcohol itself.
I see, so you're saying its cooling the manifold cooler than outside temp? It has to be damn warm and humid outside to make it that cold. I guess anything could be possible..
12-14-2006, 09:11 AM
#19
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This is a great topic! 
makes ya think real hard. I work at John Deere and im headin to a different plant today and some people there are chemical engineers so I can bring this stuff up to them and see what they say on e85 and the cooling and so fourth.
they may not know but then again they may know since they are on the alternate fuels department lol which is why i have to go there cause i keep popping O2 sensors with there new stuff so I have to run some tests...
so they should but I think its work a shot to at least ask.
they may not know but then again they may know since they are on the alternate fuels department lol which is why i have to go there cause i keep popping O2 sensors with there new stuff so I have to run some tests...
so they should but I think its work a shot to at least ask.
12-14-2006, 09:19 AM
#20
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well if I learn that there is nothing corrosive about it to my gaskets, o-rings and fuel system then I will probably try it. what was posted about the 1600cc injectors coming from Ford's fuel flexible program I have heard that before and I believe it is most likely true but do you have any sitings for that I wanted to do more research on it and I also wanted to find out if my 850cc primaries are also fuel flexable.