Carbon Fiber Parts: What Do You Want To See Made?
06-20-2005, 08:46 PM
#33
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Bayou-self Louisiana
Posts: 947
I think if you want the look only and functionality is not important but cost savings is go CF layover. Then if the CF look with some functionality "like most stuff , its CF matting with regular temp resin" then.... that saves money"
I think the next medium is to take the afore mentioned a vacume bag and use the 45 degree layup and 90 temp setup.
This is still not the high dollar autoclave under vacume using the expensive resins as in GT,F1 or other stuff.
I think $600 dollars for the vacbag "outside only" door using regular resine would be good.I have too see how the stock outside panel is. Even the inside"another $600".I assume they bolt onto the center frame.
Goodluck I will check in to see whats you got going on.
I have too much instructional videos on this and no place any more to try myself.
Just some ideas.
I think the next medium is to take the afore mentioned a vacume bag and use the 45 degree layup and 90 temp setup.
This is still not the high dollar autoclave under vacume using the expensive resins as in GT,F1 or other stuff.
I think $600 dollars for the vacbag "outside only" door using regular resine would be good.I have too see how the stock outside panel is. Even the inside"another $600".I assume they bolt onto the center frame.
Goodluck I will check in to see whats you got going on.
I have too much instructional videos on this and no place any more to try myself.
Just some ideas.
06-20-2005, 08:50 PM
#34
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Savannah, Ga
Posts: 2,763
[quote name='inanimate_object' date='Jun 20 2005, 07:04 PM']Is yours? Surely not at those prices
Mark
[/quote]
what prices? The only mention Ive made of price here was for the diffuser, and I said it would be hard to get to that price level. But I assure you everything I do is real.
[quote name='bpmfla' date='Jun 20 2005, 08:38 PM']Want to borrow my leaf blower before you take anymore pics? We could trade on a light weight hood for my fd 20b conversion.
[/quote]
Mark
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[/quote]
what prices? The only mention Ive made of price here was for the diffuser, and I said it would be hard to get to that price level. But I assure you everything I do is real.
[quote name='bpmfla' date='Jun 20 2005, 08:38 PM']Want to borrow my leaf blower before you take anymore pics? We could trade on a light weight hood for my fd 20b conversion.
[snapback]727856[/snapback]
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06-20-2005, 09:16 PM
#35
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Savannah, Ga
Posts: 2,763
[quote name='l8t apex' date='Jun 20 2005, 09:46 PM']I think if you want the look only and functionality is not important but cost savings is go CF layover. Then if the CF look with some functionality "like most stuff , its CF matting with regular temp resin" then.... that saves money"
I think the next medium is to take the afore mentioned a vacume bag and use the 45 degree layup and 90 temp setup.
This is still not the high dollar autoclave under vacume using the expensive resins as in GT,F1 or other stuff.
I think $600 dollars for the vacbag "outside only" door using regular resine would be good.I have too see how the stock outside panel is. Even the inside"another $600".I assume they bolt onto the center frame.
Goodluck I will check in to see whats you got going on.
I have too much instructional videos on this and no place any more to try myself.
Just some ideas.
[/quote]
First off, an instructional video by no means makes you an expert. Autoclaves and even vacuum bagging arent the end-all, greatest thing to happen to composite fabrication. Sure, they can make for nice parts, but a skilled person can make a better part with a basic wet layup than a less skilled person could do vacuum bagging or autoclaving it.
Vacuum bagging basically doubles the material cost as well the amount of time invloved to make all but the largest parts. One of the important factors of vacuum bagging is the appearance of control over the resin/cloth ratio. The ratio is imperitive to have the lightest and strongest part you can. A high quality hand laid piece can be within a few percent of the ratio of a high quality vacuum pagged part, and better than a vacuum bagged part done by someone who didnt really know what they were doing.
Autoclaves simple take out a lot of the area where human error can occur, and lowered the required skill level. Autoclaved parts are made using pre-pegs, which already has the resin impregnated into the cloth at the proper ratio, partially hardened, and then refrigerated until needed. The pre-peg cloth has a very limited shelf life. There only human effort required is to cut the pre-peg cloth, lay it in the mold, and hook up the autoclave connections. An autoclave is nothing more than an elaborate vacuum bagging system inside what accounts to an oven. The pre-prg cloth needs heat to fully cure.
You may have notices that the pic I posted is mostly fiberglass. Hence the inside being more white. This is a prototype. Why would I waste expensive cf cloth on a part Im going to throw away when Im done with it? In that same sense, I also made it with the cheap resin. My production resin is quite expensive, but its a far cry from the boat building resins you will find in a boat supply store, let alone the polyester crap they sell at home depot and hardware stores. My production resin is a crystal clear commercial resin noted for its impact resistance and high temperature stability. The heat distortion temperature is 330 degrees F.
Enough ranting. All of my prduction pieces will be all carbon fiber, with the exception of the flanges, which will use a fiberglass core with carbon fiber on either side. Its just not practical for me to use 40 layers of carbon fiber cloth in a flange.
This is the quality level of my production pieces. Flanges are going to be cut from this for another product.
I think the next medium is to take the afore mentioned a vacume bag and use the 45 degree layup and 90 temp setup.
This is still not the high dollar autoclave under vacume using the expensive resins as in GT,F1 or other stuff.
I think $600 dollars for the vacbag "outside only" door using regular resine would be good.I have too see how the stock outside panel is. Even the inside"another $600".I assume they bolt onto the center frame.
Goodluck I will check in to see whats you got going on.
I have too much instructional videos on this and no place any more to try myself.
Just some ideas.
[snapback]727873[/snapback]
[/quote]
First off, an instructional video by no means makes you an expert. Autoclaves and even vacuum bagging arent the end-all, greatest thing to happen to composite fabrication. Sure, they can make for nice parts, but a skilled person can make a better part with a basic wet layup than a less skilled person could do vacuum bagging or autoclaving it.
Vacuum bagging basically doubles the material cost as well the amount of time invloved to make all but the largest parts. One of the important factors of vacuum bagging is the appearance of control over the resin/cloth ratio. The ratio is imperitive to have the lightest and strongest part you can. A high quality hand laid piece can be within a few percent of the ratio of a high quality vacuum pagged part, and better than a vacuum bagged part done by someone who didnt really know what they were doing.
Autoclaves simple take out a lot of the area where human error can occur, and lowered the required skill level. Autoclaved parts are made using pre-pegs, which already has the resin impregnated into the cloth at the proper ratio, partially hardened, and then refrigerated until needed. The pre-peg cloth has a very limited shelf life. There only human effort required is to cut the pre-peg cloth, lay it in the mold, and hook up the autoclave connections. An autoclave is nothing more than an elaborate vacuum bagging system inside what accounts to an oven. The pre-prg cloth needs heat to fully cure.
You may have notices that the pic I posted is mostly fiberglass. Hence the inside being more white. This is a prototype. Why would I waste expensive cf cloth on a part Im going to throw away when Im done with it? In that same sense, I also made it with the cheap resin. My production resin is quite expensive, but its a far cry from the boat building resins you will find in a boat supply store, let alone the polyester crap they sell at home depot and hardware stores. My production resin is a crystal clear commercial resin noted for its impact resistance and high temperature stability. The heat distortion temperature is 330 degrees F.
Enough ranting. All of my prduction pieces will be all carbon fiber, with the exception of the flanges, which will use a fiberglass core with carbon fiber on either side. Its just not practical for me to use 40 layers of carbon fiber cloth in a flange.
This is the quality level of my production pieces. Flanges are going to be cut from this for another product.
06-20-2005, 09:46 PM
#36
Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Amityville, New York
Posts: 12,288
[quote name='mazdaspeed7' date='Jun 20 2005, 10:16 PM']First off, an instructional video by no means makes you an expert. Autoclaves and even vacuum bagging arent the end-all, greatest thing to happen to composite fabrication. Sure, they can make for nice parts, but a skilled person can make a better part with a basic wet layup than a less skilled person could do vacuum bagging or autoclaving it.
[/quote]
dont you know a video and the internet is all you need to make anything?
I dont know why you bother
[snapback]727886[/snapback]
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dont you know a video and the internet is all you need to make anything?
I dont know why you bother
06-20-2005, 10:41 PM
#40
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Savannah, Ga
Posts: 2,763
[quote name='tigerdriver' date='Jun 20 2005, 11:37 PM']Okay how about an upper intake manifold cover like the one on the feed website...Have not been able to find it over here...Please?
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Thats next on my list.
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Thats next on my list.