Yes!
03-04-2003, 05:09 PM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Peoria, AZ
Posts: 10,906
Originally Posted by pengaru' date='Mar 4 2003, 05:44 PM
hardly, it doesnt even support knock retard... perhaps you're thinking motec or electromotive?
03-04-2003, 06:01 PM
#13
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: IL
Posts: 2,930
Originally Posted by 1Revvin7' date='Mar 4 2003, 11:09 PM
yeah its not the best, but you don't need anything more than a e6k unless you are running a 20b or have $$$ up the ***. Knock sensors are believed to be Bs anyhow.... Thats a lot of ppl's view on them, that they don't really work, and go off at the wrong time, I haven't too many people using them. I have actually seen a lot of really fast (under 10s sec) drag cars using the E6k, always cool to see that 
now consider the system that has NO knock retard support, you will not have the annoying cases where the knock sensor picks up false knock, ok, great, but you won't have **** watching your *** when you detonate. bad.
It's not perfect, it's a safety net with some overhead, and personally, it's probably much more reliable in a rotary engine than any piston motor because we don't have half the noises a piston motor does, if a knock sensor gets knock, it's probably detonation on our motors. no valvetrain noise or piston slap here.
given the sensitivity to knock in a rotary engine, and the relatively low level of ambient noise our engine internals generate, I'd say lack of knock retard is a big ****** negative for a rotary when it comes to standalone engine management. Especially if you're boosted.
Turbo? get a tec3.
really fast drag cars running e6ks? sure, I never said anything regarding the e6k's capability to put a rotary into low times, it is perfectly capable of engine management. But unless you're going to do all your tuning on a dyno, I hope you have knock retard.
03-04-2003, 06:13 PM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Peoria, AZ
Posts: 10,906
Originally Posted by pengaru' date='Mar 4 2003, 07:01 PM
they go off when they sense knock, it has it's negatives, because it will sense other things as knock when your motor is not detonating, and in those cases it will retard timing and make less power, annoying, yes, damaging, no.
now consider the system that has NO knock retard support, you will not have the annoying cases where the knock sensor picks up false knock, ok, great, but you won't have **** watching your *** when you detonate. bad.
It's not perfect, it's a safety net with some overhead, and personally, it's probably much more reliable in a rotary engine than any piston motor because we don't have half the noises a piston motor does, if a knock sensor gets knock, it's probably detonation on our motors. no valvetrain noise or piston slap here.
given the sensitivity to knock in a rotary engine, and the relatively low level of ambient noise our engine internals generate, I'd say lack of knock retard is a big ****** negative for a rotary when it comes to standalone engine management. Especially if you're boosted.
Turbo? get a tec3.
really fast drag cars running e6ks? sure, I never said anything regarding the e6k's capability to put a rotary into low times, it is perfectly capable of engine management. But unless you're going to do all your tuning on a dyno, I hope you have knock retard.
now consider the system that has NO knock retard support, you will not have the annoying cases where the knock sensor picks up false knock, ok, great, but you won't have **** watching your *** when you detonate. bad.
It's not perfect, it's a safety net with some overhead, and personally, it's probably much more reliable in a rotary engine than any piston motor because we don't have half the noises a piston motor does, if a knock sensor gets knock, it's probably detonation on our motors. no valvetrain noise or piston slap here.
given the sensitivity to knock in a rotary engine, and the relatively low level of ambient noise our engine internals generate, I'd say lack of knock retard is a big ****** negative for a rotary when it comes to standalone engine management. Especially if you're boosted.
Turbo? get a tec3.
really fast drag cars running e6ks? sure, I never said anything regarding the e6k's capability to put a rotary into low times, it is perfectly capable of engine management. But unless you're going to do all your tuning on a dyno, I hope you have knock retard.
03-04-2003, 06:21 PM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: IL
Posts: 2,930
Originally Posted by Geoffman72' date='Mar 5 2003, 12:18 AM
I was under the impression widebands dont last long on the street.
also using just an o2 to tune your car isnt exactly the safest thing, although a wideband has a nice range for tuning, you still have a relatively slow response time... the o2's you see on your gauge from the wideband are a bit lagged from whats going on in the engine at the current moment.
A knock sensor has much less lag in it's response to knock, a world of difference compared to an o2 telling you when you go lean and YOU (a human) responding. Personally, I'd spend the extra money on a TEC3 when I consider how much I spent on my engine and time to put it in, and wire the ecu. If it could just possibly save me a rebuild because of knock retard.
03-04-2003, 06:51 PM
#19
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: NJ
Posts: 17,839
the problem with KNOCK RETARD IS if it knocks enough it can cause the trailing to fire before the LEADING!!!! that is very bad! i have no problems with my E6K. hell i even purchased a tec III and later sold it. if i had to do it all over again i'd probably go with a TEC III or a nice Motec . i have no complaints about my E6K though.... i run my FJO wideband full time. hell it uses a civic 5 wire O2 it will last a LONG time
03-04-2003, 06:59 PM
#20
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: IL
Posts: 2,930
Originally Posted by vosko' date='Mar 5 2003, 12:51 AM
the problem with KNOCK RETARD IS if it knocks enough it can cause the trailing to fire before the LEADING!!!! that is very bad!
yeah that doesnt make much sense to me at all vosko, it shouldnt be any different from retarding the timing manually by turning the CAS for instance, and it would be just a few degrees probably unless you've got some serious problems.