I have a 91 NA and trying to plan out exactly how far and what i want to go with it. I would like to get a supercharger for it but would like to know how much power i would make with it. At www.camdensuperchargers.com they have a 7 inch and a 9 inch supercharger i would like. I read somewhere that the 7 inch produces about 12 pounds of boost. On a NA, how much power could someone guess that would make and then how much on the 9 inch would someone guess? Thanks

It says there is a 170 hp increase. But i dont think that the na motor will handle that boost. The na motors are high compression, as opposed the the low compression turbo motors designed to handle boost.

why supercharge a rotary, chargers rob hp to make minor hp increases. you would be better off taking the engine out and buying a frount clip of a car and converting to a turbo. it would coast about the same anyways.

[quote name='fc3sboy1' date='May 17 2005, 08:43 PM']why supercharge a rotary, chargers rob hp to make minor hp increases. you would be better off taking the engine out and buying a frount clip of a car and converting to a turbo. it would coast about the same anyways.


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Really? I thought it would be cheaper and less work to convert it to supercharger. I saw a kit for like $2100.

Does that kit include new rotors/apex seals that are lower compression? I wouldn't personally supercharge a rotary because it's just another belt to have to drive.

[quote name='fc3sboy1' date='May 17 2005, 06:43 PM']why supercharge a rotary, chargers rob hp to make minor hp increases. you would be better off taking the engine out and buying a frount clip of a car and converting to a turbo. it would coast about the same anyways.


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give me more info for converting n/a to turbo II.



explain front clip



Est. Cost?

Front clip is from the front 1/4 panels up, minus the suspension, all the engine components, everything in engine bay. Not sure about costs though Jason. It can be different from supplier and the demand for them at the time.



Cost of swapping, all types of different figures. Figuring the cost of the clip+ an extra 10k to spend. Just give yourself a limit.



What do I know though, never done one before.

I don't think you'd see what you want to see with a supercharger. I'm no good with all of the mathematics, but there's a lot of reasons why they're on the bigger engines and the turbos on the smaller.

[quote name='rowtareh' date='May 17 2005, 08:42 PM']Front clip is from the front 1/4 panels up, minus the suspension, all the engine components, everything in engine bay. Not sure about costs though Jason. It can be different from supplier and the demand for them at the time.



Cost of swapping, all types of different figures. Figuring the cost of the clip+ an extra 10k to spend. Just give yourself a limit.



What do I know though, never done one before.


[/quote]





wow. for any conversion besides a 20b for $8k, i would rather purchase another rx-7 turbo...or save a few more thousands and get a FD lol.



I guess im just BSing cuase if i had the money i would spend it all on my 7..

I have thrown the idea around a little bit and considered a camden for my car, being from the school of overkill I went off the deep end on mods for a N/A and I think my engine would hold up fairly well. It's my understanding that the tested config for the EFI set-up is a stock engine with bolt-on supercharger that puts up 176 hp on the dyno, 6-8 psi of boost. NO it still isn't as proficient as a turbo application but the mod costs $3300.00 and adds 35 hp in an S4 application, not to shabby in my opinion.

I don't know anybody with a Supercharger on an FC, but I know a LOT of guys with SC & Turbo Miatas. Both setups work very well, but in an Autocross or Road course application the SC seams to have a slight edge because of the instant boost. If I were to drag race I would definately go Turbo only.

I wouldn't be afraid to run 9lbs boost on an NA engine but I wouldn't want to try much more, although starting out with high compression it would probably be about the same as running 12 in a Turbo engine.

1 thing to watch (especially if you have a higher revvin S5) is the max RPM of the SC unit and the ratio of the drive running it. If your car revs to 8800 and the SC is only good for 8000 - make sure you gear the drive down so you don't over-rev the SC.

[quote name='DareBee' date='May 18 2005, 06:36 AM']I don't know anybody with a Supercharger on an FC, but I know a LOT of guys with SC & Turbo Miatas. Both setups work very well, but in an Autocross or Road course application the SC seams to have a slight edge because of the instant boost. If I were to drag race I would definately go Turbo only.

I wouldn't be afraid to run 9lbs boost on an NA engine but I wouldn't want to try much more, although starting out with high compression it would probably be about the same as running 12 in a Turbo engine.

1 thing to watch (especially if you have a higher revvin S5) is the max RPM of the SC unit and the ratio of the drive running it. If your car revs to 8800 and the SC is only good for 8000 - make sure you gear the drive down so you don't over-rev the SC.


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So what would happen to a NA tranny if you added boost to it?

LOL

That is another story.

If the shift like you should be OK.

For me - I would have to upgrade

ive been quoted for a front clip for 2550.00 shipped to florida, for a mach/series 5

[quote name='DareBee' date='May 18 2005, 05:40 AM']LOL

That is another story.

If the shift like you should be OK.

For me - I would have to upgrade


[/quote]



Yeah if i did get the SC then i would probably have to invest into a new tranny and rear end becuase i would have a hard time being gentle on it.

[quote name='fc3sboy1' date='May 17 2005, 06:43 PM']why supercharge a rotary, chargers rob hp to make minor hp increases. you would be better off taking the engine out and buying a frount clip of a car and converting to a turbo. it would coast about the same anyways.


[/quote]







Yea... your wrong not all superchargers rob power

[quote name='DareBee' date='May 18 2005, 03:36 AM']1 thing to watch (especially if you have a higher revvin S5) is the max RPM of the SC unit and the ratio of the drive running it. If your car revs to 8800 and the SC is only good for 8000 - make sure you gear the drive down so you don't over-rev the SC.


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Thats only one type of sc, not all of them have that drawback

prove it. how can a belt driven accessory not rob power?



even top fuel dragsters' superchargers rob power. (the s/c on those cars rob more power than any of our cars make)

The higher exhaust backpressure caused by adding a turbo 'robs' power too.



If you put more power to the wheels after adding something, does it really 'rob' power? I'd say it increases power.

The more i think about it the more i like the idea of a SC on my NA. I think that will be my goal now, not a lot of people have it. Granted i know that a turbo would get me more power in the long run but it will still be fun and somewhat unique. Just trying to have a good time.

[quote name='jackboots' date='May 18 2005, 02:24 PM']prove it. how can a belt driven accessory not rob power?



even top fuel dragsters' superchargers rob power. (the s/c on those cars rob more power than any of our cars make)


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Cgeek2k already proved my point, but i will go a little further into detail.



There are several different types of superchargers. Depending on the type you choose they will "rob" different amounts of power. Even different sizes of a choosen type will vary in the amount of power they "rob". But as it was stated already you will have more power with the supercharger than without it.



Common sense shouldn't have to be proven.

[quote name='ROTARYROCKET7' date='May 17 2005, 08:51 PM']wow. for any conversion besides a 20b for $8k, i would rather purchase another rx-7 turbo...or save a few more thousands and get a FD lol.



I guess im just BSing cuase if i had the money i would spend it all on my 7..


[/quote]



You don't need the front clip to convert to turbo. A "good" j-spec engine will run you 1300 TOPS.



Swap the engine in, splice a couple wires (N/A ECU works works great for Tii engines), and be done with her.



BTW if you want to swap in the Tii driveline, it won't be anymore than 500 total. But you can use the N/A tranny, just don't launch.

I like the idea of turbo-ing a 7 better than SC-ing it. The price is about the same to buy used TII stuff as it is to buy a Camden Supercharger. I got an entire TII drivetrain, turbo, TII hood, S4 rims and tires, and TII fuel pump for $420. Not all of that stuff is required for running boost but that is an example of some prices for some used TII stuff. Granted SC can be simpler but it is easier to upgrade and there are more options when you go turbo. N/A's are fine for running boost on as long as you get plenty of fuel and don't run astronomical boost levels.



https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683473.gif

[quote name='BoneT2&Harmony' date='May 19 2005, 07:26 AM']You don't need the front clip to convert to turbo. A "good" j-spec engine will run you 1300 TOPS.



Swap the engine in, splice a couple wires (N/A ECU works works great for Tii engines), and be done with her.



BTW if you want to swap in the Tii driveline, it won't be anymore than 500 total. But you can use the N/A tranny, just don't launch.


[/quote]



Dang that is cheep but are the parts easaly accessable?

[/QUOTE]CGeek2k Posted Yesterday, 03:08 PM

The higher exhaust backpressure caused by adding a turbo 'robs' power too.

If you put more power to the wheels after adding something, does it really 'rob' power? I'd say it increases power.



Yes but that exhaust gas is just gonna get expelled into the atmosphere anyway. it is turning waste into power. i dont think that is robbing power. an sc on the other hand does rob power in that it takes power AWAY from the engine in order to turn the sc.

You are overcomplicating things. Yes, exhaust backpressure does rob power. If it didn’t, freeing up the exhaust system wouldn’t add power.



The bottom line is that a car with a supercharger OR a turbo will have more power that a car without. They are just two different methods of increasing the efficiency of the engine. Adding either one will increase the power put to the pavement, so why does it matter which one he chooses? The question was about the numbers you can get with a SC, not a turbo vs. sc debate.

[quote name='NoeVuh' date='May 19 2005, 10:19 AM']Dang that is cheep but are the parts easaly accessable?


[/quote]



Yea, all you gotta do is search.

cgeek is right if he wants to sc his na i say go for it. Who cares if its a little less efficiant. its his car. its improves his hp. its unique and so far it seems like it would work alright. at least hes spending money on his engine and not for ricer body parts. Make one hell of a sleeper.

And an intercooler wouldnt be necessary... I like the idea. So ud need the SC, somewhere to mount it, drive belts and another pulley on the engine, intake modification to connect it, a bigger fuel pump and bigger injectors... am i missing anything?

[quote name='jackboots' date='May 18 2005, 05:24 PM']prove it. how can a belt driven accessory not rob power?



even top fuel dragsters' superchargers rob power. (the s/c on those cars rob more power than any of our cars make)


[/quote]



"robs" around 3000hp to be exact https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683664.gif

[quote name='little rotary 14' date='May 20 2005, 03:29 PM']cgeek is right if he wants to sc his na i say go for it. Who cares if its a little less efficiant. its his car. its improves his hp. its unique and so far it seems like it would work alright. at least hes spending money on his engine and not for ricer body parts. Make one hell of a sleeper.


[/quote]



Thanks, ricers drive me nuts, i would way rather have performance in a sleeper than have a car that looks like a billion other hondas.

[quote name='toplessFC3Sman' date='May 20 2005, 07:41 PM']And an intercooler wouldnt be necessary... I like the idea. So ud need the SC, somewhere to mount it, drive belts and another pulley on the engine, intake modification to connect it, a bigger fuel pump and bigger injectors... am i missing anything?


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The package i saw came with everything you need to raise the fuel and the belt drives and mounting brackets and everything.

Oh awesome! where did you see this package and how much was it again? Im being tempted...

[quote name='toplessFC3Sman' date='May 23 2005, 02:17 AM']Oh awesome! where did you see this package and how much was it again? Im being tempted...


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just search on google, not hard to find.

the price might make you think twice though. if i remember correctly the kits go for about 5500USD. of course this includes everything you'll need to make it bolt-on and run...but at 5500USD....i dont know, i wouldn't do it. but that's just me..and i already have a turbo so...

$5500 could buy you a Turbo II

The EFI set-up is $3300, a carbureted set-up is less then the EFI.



Camdensuperchargers.com

[quote name='toplessFC3Sman' date='May 23 2005, 12:17 AM']Oh awesome! where did you see this package and how much was it again? Im being tempted...


[/quote]



At atkingsrotary.com the supercharger is 2,395.00

They used to have BMW mini superchargers on ebay for £170, they were the roots type though.



Mark

[quote name='toplessFC3Sman' date='May 20 2005, 05:41 PM']And an intercooler wouldnt be necessary...
[/quote]



Incorrect. You're still compressing the air so you're still heating it up. The intercooler would allow you to run more boost without detonating.

true, but its not being heated nearly as much as in a turbo, when its running right next to the exhaust gasses, thru a turbo that has just been heated up by the exhaust. It wouldnt hurt, but wouldnt be necessary for the same amount of boost