I looked through some of the FAQ's and a few other places and still didn't really answer my questions. Maybe you guys can give me some good advice.



Car is a 88 n/a. Engine died after the car was driven with no oil for about 30 miles. Lost compression on the rear rotor and my old man picked it up for $200. I yanked the engine out yesterday and I am cracking it open today if I can.

The front E-shaft bolt is on there tight. I hit it with a heavy impact gun and it will not come off. Is it likely that the oil starvation has something to do with this? Let me clear up the obvious also. It is lefty loosey on that right? https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png



The plan at this point with this car is very simple. We are only going to rebuild the engine and paint the car. Nothing wild. I do not want to trip any error codes. I would however like to modify and simplfy what can be. This engine is six port which I am not really familiar with. I read that removing the 5th and 6th port sleeves will sacrifice low end torque. Is this really all that noticable. Is it better to just wire them open and can it be done with out adversly effecting the engines operation. Is it best just to leave them alone all together?



Manifolds, What are my options being that we are not going to be using a stand alone ECU? Which alternate lower can I use. Can the Cosmo or Fd mainfolds be used in cunjuction with the fc manifolds. If so what on the harness as to be redone?

I am aware of the connections like TPS etc but I really don't know which direction of manifolds I am heading in so I am not ceratain what to look into yet. I would like to do the Fd stuff since I am so familiar with it but I am not sure if it is even worth it. Are there any clearance issues with the oil filler neck or anything else? Thoughts?



I realize some of these questions might be redundant but please help a guy out.

I just need to get an idea of what I can and what I cannot do

Thanks fellas.

Dave that front bolt can be a major *****...



did you hit it with a torch yet?



Another thing I do is a made a bar that slips onto the dowels of the flywheel and is about 4 feet long, then i get a breaker bar with a jack handle or somethnig on it and put it on the bolt. Get three people, one on either end of the motor putting torque on the bars and one person sitting on the actual motor itself to keep it from moving.



On my last motor i lifted demetrius 3 feet off the ground a few times but that made it break loose...

re, that front bolt. What Mike and I did for my car, was use a super long chain wrench. We wraped the chain wrench around the pulley hub and then used a 1/2 breaker bar extended with a hydraulic jack bar for extra leverage. It popped right off after a bit of cursing...

chain wrench



http://img.ebigchina.com/cdimg/21932...1094985671.jpg

Yea we tried the breaker bar with a 3 foot pipe yesterday with no luck. Thats fine though so long as this is not out of the ordinary. The motor in my 3rd gen was not like this nor was the 12a from that repu I had. I'll put my ass into it. Thanks for the advice. Now does anyone else got any advice about the manifolds?

Well ill go to your mainfolds question.



You have an s4 lower manifold, obviously...the cars an s4. From what ive ehard you cant swap an FD manifold onto an S4 lower...i could be wrong but i thought i heard that and since i have an s5 obviously i haventtested an s4.



Now if you can put an FD UIM on an s4 LIM (you cant use the FD LIM, obviously) You have to center the UIM to LIM using the center, long bolt. Then adjust the UIM's bolt holes accordingly, normally you need to stretch all 4 at least alittle bit.



THen obviously you need an FD TB, TPS as well as the FD Throttle Cable. You'll need either the stock TB Elbow piece or the Greddy unit.



You'll need to shorten the base of the oil filler neck, i shrunk mine way down then welded the flange back onto it, i have about 1/4" of clearance.



You should use the LIM's gasket to reshape the FD UIM's ports because the UIM's primaries are significantly smaller then the FC's LIM primary ports. HOWEVER you have to be careful while dremeling cause you will only be leaving yourself about 1/8" of gasket sealing area, this is VERY IMPORTANT.

As for harness modification....umm depends on if you wanna bypass idle control devices. You wont have an FC BACV, IAT, TPS, and i think one other thing. You can probably use the FD IAT, and can wire the FD TPS into the FC Harness...i know nothing about the BACV tho.



In all honesty 90% of the people that swap the FD UIM onto an FC LIM use a standalone and no idle controls or emission equipment...its just like 500times easier.



kevin.

i'm with Kevin on the fd mani convert. the s4 lim sits very low and even though i don't have the parts in front of me i highly doubt that it would work. if it did, like Kevin said it would be a bitch to keep the drivability issues at bay without the idle controls and what not. on to the aux. port actuation. is this car going to stay completely stock? any emissions equip? my personal opinion is the stock actuation system is garbage. my advice would be to recommend an electronic system that is rpm controlled instead of exhaust backpressure especially if a free flowing exhaust is in the plans. sounds like a fun project...

I read somewhere's that a SA22 cable is needed for the conversion. Could be wrong though.



Dave: Did you and yer pops crack the block open?

i've always strapped my engine down on the big metal table in my garage and used a floor jack handle on the breaker bar to pop that fucker off. I have no idea about anything on an FC engine though.... i'm in the middle of learning it now though.

Thanks for the input guys. When I looked at the lower that is on thet car ( s4 i guess) i thought it looked awfully short for the fd uim so you just confirmed my suspisions. I suppose I could pick up the s5 lower. See the problem is this is my dads car and he really jsut wants to put it back together. So he will not pay for a stand alone. I saw a nice racing beat 6 port intake with a weber carb and the FPR all for sale for $550. That might be cool. My old man said he didn't want to drop $550 on that. Damn hippies.



On a side note he did mention that he finished off most of the body work yesterday.

https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/blush.png



Anyway thanks again Kevin and Big Turbo.

im sure the LIM could work with out any problems but the 88 is a 6 port vs a 4 port FD/RE. im almost positive that the UIM will not fit the NA LIM.(ask vosko to look at how i had to modify the T2 LIM to work with an NA UIM, not a whole lot of work though, just not drop in). also, for the UIM, u want to keep the because of the dynamic chamber. as far as manifolds id look into getting a S5 NA UIM and LIM. however im not sure if youd need any other intake parts off the S5. im also almost positive that any LIM from a 13B will mate to any 13B at the engine, again bearing slight differences between a 6 port nad 4 port. another thing is cause of the shape, a T2 inatke sits higher than the NA, might have problems with the hood closing. i did on and FB, however.



hope i didnt confuse yall....

jim had a fd upper on a s5 lower with a N/A hood and it cleared fine

[quote name='Rob x-7' date='Apr 25 2005, 06:56 PM']jim had a fd upper on a s5 lower with a N/A hood and it cleared fine


[/quote]

T2 LIM and FD UIM? the NA LIM is shorter than the T2, and the NA UIM is taller than the T2.

Is the S5 lim 4 or 6 port?



Just to share, I opened the engine up yesterday. Looks like the the bearing on the eshaft was worn slightly. Not sure the part name but where the input shaft slides in near the rear main. That threw things off a bit, the corner of the apex seal was jarred loose and gouged the rotor and the housing. Either that or the lack of oil caused the seals to chatter or just freeze up allowing the coprner to fall into the combustion chamber. Either way it made a mess of the parts. So if anyone has a reusable rotor and housing I am in the market.

S4 NA lim is 6 port, S5 NA lim is 6 port.



How did the FD stuff get started in this thread. I thought FD3sboost's engine he was working on was a NA engine. IF you can use a FD UIM on a NA LIM that is news to me.

[quote name='Fd3BOOST' date='Apr 26 2005, 08:03 AM']Is the S5 lim 4 or 6 port?



Just to share, I opened the engine up yesterday. Looks like the the bearing on the eshaft was worn slightly. Not sure the part name but where the input shaft slides in near the rear main. That threw things off a bit, the corner of the apex seal was jarred loose and gouged the rotor and the housing. Either that or the lack of oil caused the seals to chatter or just freeze up allowing the coprner to fall into the combustion chamber. Either way it made a mess of the parts. So if anyone has a reusable rotor and housing I am in the market.


[/quote]

on jims car? 4 port.



you can also go to mazdatrix and check out the gaskets and see how they differ.



http://mazdatrix.com/c-2.htm

[quote name='Cheers!' date='Apr 26 2005, 05:52 AM']S4 NA lim is 6 port, S5 NA lim is 6 port.



How did the FD stuff get started in this thread. I thought FD3sboost's engine he was working on was a NA engine. IF you can use a FD UIM on a NA LIM that is news to me.


[/quote]





Ok so the tii is the four port then? I would not have to ask these questions If I happened to have them all handy to compare. I have the N/A s4 lower. I already know that won't work with an FD uim. I was under the assumption that I could use a S5 6 port with a FD uim. I guess this is not the case? Are all the N/A lim's shortys?

[quote name='treceb' date='Apr 26 2005, 06:43 AM']on jims car? 4 port.



you can also go to mazdatrix and check out the gaskets and see how they differ.



http://mazdatrix.com/c-2.htm


[/quote]





Hey thanks, at least now I see where the ports meet. Looks like the FD and the TII would work well but the tii lower would not work with the N/A irons.



Might just be bettter to leave it all stock and just be done with it.

https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/blink.png

A 4 port manifold off a turbo engine can only work with a turbo engine.

A 6 port manifold off a NA engine can only work with a NA engine.



I'm not sure about the interchangeability between using S4/S5 LIM or UIMs. I don't know what teh difference is.



My comment is: You should fix the 6 ports on your S4 NA and don't worry about performance gains from the manifold. Unless you can polish the internals of it. To add to why you shuld make yuor 6 ports work:



An engine's performance is not measured by peak Horsepower, it's a measure of the area under the HP or Torque curve (HP is calculated from torque - so same thing). When you wire your 6 ports open, the area under the curve decreases because you have shitty power at the bottom end. You would lose in a simple drag race off the line if you start at anything below 5000+ rpms if the car beside you had his 6 ports working.



Oh and don't bother with the electronic 6 port, that is just another thing to go wrong. Stock worked, so fix it and keep it stock.

in NA form, you want the dynamic chambers "twirling" effect to speed the flow of air through the intake.

the next best thing to the stock S4 intake is the S5 intake. only cause it flows better. how much, i dont know.



but yeah like cheers said, polish/port the intake for better flow.

are we all talking about the same Jim?

anywho- I think it slipped by alot of us about using the FD upper on a N.A lower, at least it slipped by me https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/blush.png

yea i completely forgot it was na n/a lim, lol. oh well.



kevin.

[quote name='Cheers!' date='Apr 26 2005, 11:46 AM']A 4 port manifold off a turbo engine can only work with a turbo engine.

A 6 port manifold off a NA engine can only work with a NA engine.



I'm not sure about the interchangeability between using S4/S5 LIM or UIMs. I don't know what teh difference is.



My comment is: You should fix the 6 ports on your S4 NA and don't worry about performance gains from the manifold. Unless you can polish the internals of it. To add to why you shuld make yuor 6 ports work:



An engine's performance is not measured by peak Horsepower, it's a measure of the area under the HP or Torque curve (HP is calculated from torque - so same thing). When you wire your 6 ports open, the area under the curve decreases because you have shitty power at the bottom end. You would lose in a simple drag race off the line if you start at anything below 5000+ rpms if the car beside you had his 6 ports working.



Oh and don't bother with the electronic 6 port, that is just another thing to go wrong. Stock worked, so fix it and keep it stock.


[/quote]



I was not looking at swaping manifolds for increased horsepower or "performance gains" as you put it. I only wanted to swap to FD maifolds because I am more familiar with the fd3 and it's throttle body etc.I was only looking to see if I could swap the intakes to something that I am used to. Come on man, Performance gains and naturally aspriated should not even be in the same sentence. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png

Regardless It seems easier at from what I understand to just leave it be and get familiar with the odd s4 N/A manifolds.





Thanks for the input.

https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png

I agree... if you aren't looking for performance gains... just increase your knowledge about another rx7 component.

[quote name='Fd3BOOST' date='Apr 26 2005, 05:38 PM']I was not looking at swaping manifolds for increased horsepower or "performance gains" as you put it. I only wanted to swap to FD maifolds because I am more familiar with the fd3 and it's throttle body etc.I was only looking to see if I could swap the intakes to something that I am used to. Come on man, Performance gains and naturally aspriated should not even be in the same sentence. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png

Regardless It seems easier at from what I understand to just leave it be and get familiar with the odd s4 N/A manifolds.

Thanks for the input.

https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png


[/quote]



You can always polish the S4 manifolds to a mirror finish like your FD ones.. Yum.. those polished FD ones you did on yuor blue car are so nice...

[quote name='Cheers!' date='Apr 27 2005, 04:43 AM']You can always polish the S4 manifolds to a mirror finish like your FD ones.. Yum.. those polished FD ones you did on yuor blue car are so nice...


[/quote]





Why thank you sir. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png Yea I suppose I will just dress up what is there. Knowing my dad he will give it some weird ass two tone paint job anyhow.

I actually think a S4 upper looks nice just the way it is

when its clean its naturally shiny, paint the fins with some black paint if its worn and it looks awesome as is.

[quote name='Rob x-7' date='Apr 27 2005, 03:45 PM']I actually think a S4 upper looks nice just the way it is

when its clean its naturally shiny, paint the fins with some black paint if its worn and it looks awesome as is.


[/quote]





Yea well this car was about as dirty and ugly as could be. It might make a difference with some new paint and a fresh engine bay.

the finish on the upper is quite durable, go at it with some degreaser and a pressure washer and I bet its good as new under there, as long as it wasnt corroded that is