ok so i have an 88 n/a.



has a reman motor, RB header, no emissions, no airpump, no cat, no bac, basically anything removable (except ps and ac) is gone.



so i bought the car this way. Never owned an n/a, never looked at n/a, so i dont understand the 6 ports very well.



I believe the s4's ports are ran using a line to the cat right? Well i dont have a cat, but the previous owner seems to have welded a fitting to the headers, downstream a bit, and run a line from that fitting to the rear port actuator.



does this even work? the cars not roadworthy at the moment (no driveshaft or front diff mount) but i can turn it on etc, runs fine, but havent been able to drive it up to 4500rpms to see what power feels like, plus since im used to my t2 i dunno if id realize it as a problem or as it just being slow.



kevin.

Some folks suggest putting a glob of grease or a paperclip on the actuator rods, then take it above 3800 rpm under load (supposedly doesn't work in neutral), and see if the grease or clip moved (indicating the rod sucked down into the actuator like it should). Also need to be sure the actuators and sleeves can operate freely, they can get stuck.

He's right about checking to see if the rods are working...either of those suggestions work. It's hard sometimes even for NA guys to notice that the actuators aren't working! I'm sure you've been around the forum enough to hear about wiring the actuators open as well...which I suggest doing if they are not working as intended. NAs don't have much bottom end to begin with, so who cares if you take a little more away.



Also, I'm going to bet that the setup the guy used won't work very well...I don't think it'll cause enough backpressure for the actuators to work. Just a hunch...

theres another way to check it, ive never actually done it this way but you've got the tools...



tee a boost guage into the 6 port line, and with the compressed air from the shop, see how many psi it takes for the actuators to move (should be like 2-3psi), then see if you get (2-3psi) when you're driving.



or you can run the 6 ports from the air pump, that way is nice cause you can adjust it to open for best power (seems like later is good, like 3800-4500)



either way this is an excuse to beat the crap out of the car https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png

Kevin



That rear line tees out to both actuators. The backpressure should be sufficient enough to open them.



If you find they are not opening, you can disassemble the actuator diaphragms, and grease those badboys up (the shaft) and work them back and fourth with your hand. It doesn't take alot of effort to move them, for the purpose of not needing alot of backpressure feed to open them up.



But sometimes the diaphragms do sieze.

lol colin said diaphragms and grease the shaft, and work it back and forth with your hand, all in one post without speaking of sex.



thats funny.



Yea ok so basically the rod on those actuators should move inward?



how easy should it be to move that rod by hand? I *think* i tried moving them and they didnt move, but i dont remember exactly.



Ill try all your suggestions, j9's sounds fun compressed air is always an adventure lol.



i mean the motor only has 17k on it, i figure they work, as long as theres enough backpressure.



once i get the driveshaft and mount ill prolly be more motivated, right now the dust and pollen piling on it sorta dissuade me from touching it. damn nj dmv.



kevin.

if you're pushing with your finger and the things assembled, its pretty hard. if you have the actuator in your hand, its not too bad, but its not easy

ok was just checking cause, with it on the motor, i think i tried, barely, to move it and it didnt. There's visible "up down movement wear", i guess youd call it, on the actuator rod.



im still trying to figure everything done on this motor, some things im just not used to due to the whole turbo motor thing https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png.



ugh and im working on a friends 88t2, so going from s4 t2, to s4 n/a back and forth confuses me for short periods some times https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683664.gif .



BTW this forum still rocks, havent been in 2nd gen too much since my cars umm inoperable lol. been missing this place for tech advice.



kevin.

compressed air works the best to see if they operate in the car, imo



you can add hose to the end of the actuator, and still look and see if they operate while holding the air gun and hose outside the engine bay.

yea thats what i was thinking of doing.



i noticed my one engine mount was split in half so im replacing that today, maybe ill **** with the 6port system.



n/as are intriguing, especially when youre used to the turbo motors.



wish i didnt have to keep the p/s and a/c (my g/f is planning on driving this car too, gotta leave it for her) because my t2's engine bay was so easy to work in without that crap.



kevin.

one or the other is fine, but both makes it a pain

Doign the front cover gasket thing, with the motor in the car, and keeping A/C and P/S was a bitch. Plus i refused to empty my A/C so i left the compressor in the engine bay while doing all this and the lines connected https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png.



That acc. bracket is just frickin huge.



kevin.

this is the best thread ever!

bleh, was trying to **** with the 6ports today after i replaced the motor mount, start revving the motor and found out coolant was coming up off the rear plate, where i tried capping off the coolant nipple (for the TB), so needless to say that ended the whole 6port focus thing and i dove back into "fix the stupid annoying problems" mode https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png.



so hopefully monday i can do something 6port related.



kevin.

teknics I believe the s4's ports are ran using a line to the cat right?



Back pressure from the cat



Well i dont have a cat, but the previous owner seems to have welded a fitting to the headers, downstream a bit, and run a line from that fitting to the rear port actuator.



Your 6PI is not opening then.



Baldy Some folks suggest putting a glob of grease or a paperclip on the actuator rods,



This is a good way to tell in a way :-/



then take it above 3800 rpm under load (supposedly doesn't work in neutral), and see if the grease or clip moved (indicating the rod sucked down into the actuator like it should). Also need to be sure the actuators and sleeves can operate freely, they can get stuck.



This is wrong. You can bring the car to 6 grand and they will never open it has nothing to do with it, that is why they do not open in neutral revving.



j9fd3s tee a boost guage into the 6 port line, and with the compressed air from the shop, see how many psi it takes for the actuators to move (should be like 2-3psi), then see if you get (2-3psi) when you're driving.



This is bad very bad, and wrong. The PI starts to open at 1.2psi and fully open at 2.1psi. Using compressed are will slam the actuators open braking them.

that's why they make adjustable regulators and cheater valves for air compressors, you can dial down the pressure to nothing more than the psi of a gnat fart if you need to.

you remind me of reted.



1) Yes i know it operated via back pressure from the cat.

2) I have now determined my 6PI is operating, and working nicely with the line and fitting that is run to my header.

3)n/a

4) Baldy specifically stated "3800rpm under load (supposedly doesnt work in neutral)" and then you come in and say "this is wrong you can rev to 6k and it wont do anything, you cant see it open in neutral." Duh, that is exactl what baldy just said. "3800rpm under load" means like driving around and hitting 3800rpm, not just revving the motor.

5) J9 said to use a boost gauge, and the use of a regulator is only amazingly obvious, especially since my shops air is 180psi and hes telling me to use around 2psi, obviously a regulator is needed.



thanks for um...your intended help?



kevin.

Hmmm...mine open in neutral. When I tested mine I just popped the hood, revved the motor, and I could see them moving.

Sure they are, go look. I have. They open. With a header and no cat. Yes.





Yeah it is, do you fully understand what he is suggesting?





It is not wrong. They are capable of opening with no load, have you really tried it? I have. Numerous times. And they will do it, unless you have some kind of problem.





No, this is not bad, or wrong. I've done this, and it works, and not only did nothing break, nothing was wrong. Oh I used a regulator though, which is common sense.

ColinRX7 Sure they are, go look. I have. They open. With a header and no cat. Yes.



Some systems do provide enough back pressure to the split air pipe when setup without the cat but very few.



Yeah it is, do you fully understand what he is suggesting?



I did not know it required rocket science



It is not wrong. They are capable of opening with no load, have you really tried it? I have. Numerous times. And they will do it, unless you have some kind of problem.



Then you have something wrong. Just driving your car around past even 4k means nothing to them coming on, it sully requires 1.2psi to 2.1 to fully operate weather your at 2krpm on load or 5k they will open when this psi is reached and no other times. If you rev it and get that much pressure you are defiantly building up a lot more pressure then normal. That is like saying my turbo is spooling in neutral so I must be making boost.



No, this is not bad, or wrong. I've done this, and it works, and not only did nothing break, nothing was wrong. Oh I used a regulator though, which is common sense.



Yes it is bad without a regulator dropping the pressure down. If you don’t state to do so someone reading may not know bettor slam there actuators open and bust the diaphragms.



teknics 4) Baldy specifically stated "3800rpm under load (supposedly doesnt work in neutral)" and then you come in and say "this is wrong you can rev to 6k and it wont do anything, you cant see it open in neutral." Duh, that is exactl what baldy just said. "3800rpm under load" means like driving around and hitting 3800rpm, not just revving the motor.



No you miss read what I stated. Baldy specifically stated 3.8krpm and that is wrong there is no guaranty they come on at 3.8k they can come on at 2 or 5 or 6 it is load to psi related the only thing that happens at 3.8k is the secondary injectors.



5) J9 said to use a boost gauge, and the use of a regulator is only amazingly obvious, especially since my shops air is 180psi and he’s telling me to use around 2psi, obviously a regulator is needed.



You would be surprised how many people would not bring this to there thought process.

Baldy specifically stated 3.8krpm





I take that back. Sorry Baldy I miss read what you stated.

Some of the discussion/arguement is specific to the s4 platform and should be included in the descriptions, since we are being so technical.



Certain information shared with some members need not be spelled out clear to infinity, they have the basic knowledge coupeled with common sense to get the job done...in other words, if I ask what time it is, don't tell me how to build a watch, just tell me the time, understand?

[quote name='iceblue' date='Sep 25 2005, 08:19 PM' post='762781']

ColinRX7 Sure they are, go look. I have. They open. With a header and no cat. Yes.



Some systems do provide enough back pressure to the split air pipe when setup without the cat but very few.



Yeah it is, do you fully understand what he is suggesting?



I did not know it required rocket science



It is not wrong. They are capable of opening with no load, have you really tried it? I have. Numerous times. And they will do it, unless you have some kind of problem.



Then you have something wrong. Just driving your car around past even 4k means nothing to them coming on, it sully requires 1.2psi to 2.1 to fully operate weather your at 2krpm on load or 5k they will open when this psi is reached and no other times. If you rev it and get that much pressure you are defiantly building up a lot more pressure then normal. That is like saying my turbo is spooling in neutral so I must be making boost.



ive never had a problem with open exhausts and the 6 ports, ive mostly ended up with rb stuff though.



the cars vary, somtimes the actuators will move in neutral sometimes they dont, it depends on the condition of the exahust and how carboned up the sleeves are. if they open easily off idle something is wrong though, plugged exhaust.



on a stock car with a good exhaust and clean 6 ports, you really cant feel it work, the more you "feel" them come on the "sticker" they are getting.



not that i know anything, only been playing with these for 13years....

I think it would be safe to say that one car can very from another as much as windows and Linux.



On a note for passing readers the RB presilencer is designed to open the 6PI on S4 models.

how hard was it to put the bt in the miata? or how much room is there for the exhaust?

I would continue discussion of this over pm or AIM if you wish. The car is not completed yet. My time has been pulled away lately for a 13bt GTU I have been building for someone. But the hardest part is bracing the tranny to rearend then building motor mounts ;-) Not all that bad, not bad at all.

Why hide it, start a new topic in other rotary powered and share, i would like to hear about it as well.

I was simply trying to not clutter this thread off topic is all.

You can't wrap everything up into a neat little package and hand it to everybody, every single car is different. You're wasting you're time making a classification for every vehicle and saying what is suppost to happen, and if not, something is wrong.



Nothing was wrong with my 6 port when I had it, just because the sleeves opened without a load on the engine. The sleeves didn't open at 3800 rpm in neutral, but they opened. Exhaust backpressure is way too unpredictable per individual application to say something is wrong with your car if they open in neutral.

I like how this guy is treating us like we just learned how to walk or something.



thank god for the ignore feature, i finally get to use it.



kevin.