As some of you know I did a fairly extensive restoration on my car, but pretty much left the engine and running gear close to stock. Sometime ago the local hot rod council saw it fit to grant me a set of plates that allow me to forgo smog testing, meaning I never have to get my car tagged again, so the sky is the limit as far as power plant options.



At this point im over considering the idea of selling the car, I may be buried in it actually, but im equally over the 114 fpt/117 hp it puts to the street as well.



Given the scenario that you had to do nothing else to the car cosmetically and it would not be a daily driver, what engine/trans set-up would you run, and possibly an all inclusive, round number budget? Keep in mind the car will inevitably sit for months at a time only being started to maintain engine internals and such...

http://www.pulseperformancere.com/ga...es4rota054.jpg



4 rotor that a shop is producing in new zealand. about 26 grand US, before adding shipping, tarriffs and taxes https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683358.gif



http://www.pulseperformancere.com/prodpack.html

That would certainly be interesting...



I've thrown that idea around before, a local engine bulider has a 4 rotor built from 12a parts. He wants 10 grand to lease it (basically the shaft and plates) and I buy eveything else. I'm guessing without freshening that motor or any 4 rotor has a short life (in miles)?

PPRE builds their own. it's a full fabrication shop and i think they acquired a liscence to build them

What are you going to do with it the 3 times a year you do drive it? Do you want a show car motor that doesnt have to work all that well, but look good on paper, and look good? Or do you want something that will crank up every time you hit the starter, even if its been sitting for 3 months, and is cheap to work on/maintain?



If it was me, Id go with an LS2. Relatively inexpensive for a swap, great support, great power, great torque, and pretty bulletproof. Cam, long tube headers and exhaust, and intake is a 500 whp engine that runs like your mothers camry, and will get as good of gas mileage on the highway.

and i love how in the pictures of their workshop there's an rx3 with 666 on the side of it lol

to hell with it, get a duramax diesel and do like the owner of nitrous express did. he has over a thousand lbs. of torque but gets 32 mpg on the highway lol

Im staying all things rotary with it, no pistons in this chassis unless were talking about brakes.



The engine would be presentable but more functional. Everything on this car now worked and worked well but its pretty close to stock. Don't get me wrong, for what I did to the N/A 13B, it was a turn key go application no matter how long it sat. In the rainy months I still let it warm up and got the tires warm before putting it up again. For this new application I would still take it to events and such, but im really over the whole trophy winning show and shine thing with this car, been there done that, "I wanna go fast momma" To me maintenance is maintenance, now do I want an engine I have to yank out and freshen every 3 or 4k, hell no, but the car wlll set it out the rainy months no two ways about it so if the engine needs to be ran, driven all the time to stay healthy then it probably wont work for me at this time.



Im just trying to get a feel again for PP, turbo, 2,3,4 rotor and an all inclusive cost to get the budget hammered out, i was out of the game for a while and need the be briefed on the latest and greatest

I highly suggest a 13B-RE if you want to stay rotary, and a LS if you want pure raw power with equal wow factor

the thought of that made me cringe! diesel, in a 7? gawd no! : )

I have an 8 dyno'd and ready to go for the 33 Ford project that's on hold, just cant bring myself to put it in a rotary specific car

the torque of the V8 would respond real well to the extra weight of the car

I agree with Mazdaspeed and Rob.. put an LS in it. I jump in my 500+ rwhp vette and drive a 1500 mile round trip every few weeks and all i do to it is change the oil... and rear tires alot. It also gets mid-30's gas milage. Gotta love that 6 speed and the torque to not lug at 1200 rpms on the interstate.

I need to see pictures of that!





I would highly recommend the swap. I swapped an LS6 that was purchased for a different project into my GTU a couple of years ago after its second 13B crapped its pants. The car is sick, ~450rwhp and maintained perfect 50/50 weight balance.



I do love the rotary motors, it was a chocolate in the peanut butter moment for me... We ended up purchasing another 1990 vert for the wife, we're keeping that car a rotary.

http://www.nitrousexpress.com/projects.php



it competed in the hot rod power tour and they said it was over a thousand pounds of torque, but they don't say any numbers on their site. considering the parts they dumped into it though.........

go figure a diesel truck magazine had the best article on it :P



http://www.dieselpowermag.com/featur...max/index.html

here's the dealio...



PP is loud and stinky, it is a simple device and pretty trouble free. mine fired right up after sitting for a month yesterday. its still an N/A after all... since you are starting with an 89 NA motor, cost isn't too bad... i'm in mine about 3k, i got some screaming deals, but its 100% new. since in theory, you could PP the existing engine, cost would be seals gaskets + labor + new efi system/intake



3 rotor. if i was gonna do another, it would be n/a. a stock port stock intake motor will do 235hp. add a custom intake and its more like 250-260. 3 rotor SOUNDS awesome...they add more low end torque too, the stock intake/EFI peaks in the 6200rpm area. these engines are expensive to buy, and since mazda is balancing 3 rotors with 2 counterweights, you either NEED a factory assembly, OR have it really carefully built by someone who KNOWS how to do it. they have this tendancy to break e shafts, thru a combination of bad balance and poor oiling. turbo setup gets complicated and expensive, 500rwhp is easy, more than 600 and it'll start breaking irons.



13b turbo; you can have your cake and eat it too... if you do your homework, like rob you can have something that drives like stock but makes excellent power (350-380), and is just as reliable as the stock t2. IMO if you pick the right parts, don't get greedy with the power, and make sure everything works before you beat on it, it's as reliable as anything else rotary.

That's pretty damn cool. I've been thinking about building a smaller diesel powered racer for some time now, I never considered a 6.6L Cummings motor...

lol they used the 6.6 duramax diesel from gm....

Call me crazy, but after reading this I'm considering starting with the PP option, and putting a turbo engine together on the heels of it as a side project. A 3 or 4 rotor would be cool but I still feel like they haven't got the attention that all the 2 rotor engines have gotten over the years.



I've heard about 3rotors breaking e-shafts for a while now and remember all the problems Brad had with his 10th anny turboed 20b swap, and I can easily do both engines and thier perephials for what it would take to do a 4rotor, besides, I think a tube framed car would be a more fitting application for a 4rotor engine, not a 3800lb convertible with stereo **** and AC.



...and the rotary gods wouldn't shat at me for putting a V8 in an RX modeled car, just can't get passed that...

lol sounds like a plan man, best of luck

oh you know brad too? his troubles were pretty typical, the 20b just adds complexity...



PP in a vert? prepare to smell bad, but it'll be a hoot. its simple, you give your motor to rob, he fills in the ports, and adds new ones. id suggest starting with EFI...

I wouldnt say I know Brad, but we've met. Saw his car in Wenatchee, it was radical, he said it wasnt quite all there yet though, that was a few years ago now.



lol, My car stinks now as it is, only bad if you have to idle at a light for a long time. Im guessing that all that comes with the P-Port (noise and smell) will have me so pissed off that I'll gladly welcome the turbo'd set-up at that point.



I'm sure I'll have a bazillion quesions to ask as this comes along, but yes certainly EFI, Thanks Mike!

eh, I dont know if I would go to the trouble for 250hp, go big or go home

If you could pick-up 1 hp for $9.50ea I'm guessing you would. I went and talked to Rob @ Pineapple this afternoon and we have a little different plan.



Semi P-Port with larger ports in the plates, affixed sleeves, turbo II management and harness, turbo'd, all with my existing engine.



Should be interesting and step up the power some.

Why the hell would you even consider sticking with stock electronics? It can barely run a stock motor, let alone one making any real power...

It really isn't as much trouble as it would seem as i'm pulling the engine anyway. Had a battery issue that made a mess in the bay and I was caught in a few rainstorms, so it needs a good once over throughout. It might appear as an inconveient excuse, but it isn't my daily either.







Its not so much a considering or depending on stock as it is a staged upgrade scenario. The non-turbo part of it Semi p-port and other port work, manifold mods and fuel system mods can be done relatively quickly, for a small amount up front once implimented and the SAFC should be enough to start with to make it happen.



I'm more interested in the T2 harness than the ECU as a second step when implimenting a small turbo, standalone is in my future after that, I'm sure.



I suppose I should clarify, besides the S-10 that I beat on and have nearly a quarter million miles on, I've ended up with the SSR with a 6 liter/6 speed in it and I have an 08 SS trailblazer with a 6 liter in it, so I have go fast options coming out my ass in the way of other rides.



I'm a virgin when it comes to other types of rotary power and want to explore them, maybe all of them if time and loot allow it.

Im going to disagree with your plan, especially on the TII harness.

For the cost of a standalone you will be prepped for any set up you may evolve to, using a new harness and all new sensors.



By the time you are done you will kick yourself in the ass for just not going with a turbo engine to begin with.

there is a place that can make the stock ecu programable, within limits, www.pocketlogger.com

The TII harness is going to be old, youre asking for problems with bad wires, bad connections, broken connectors, etc. Its incredibly expensive to replace, and still have all the provisions for unnecessary emissions equipment. Same goes for the ecu, but even after flashing it, you are still bound by the limitations of 1980's era electronics.



Or you can just get a proper standalone, which will have a new harness, with only what you need, and has all the capability you will ever need. And it probably wont cost you much more than the route you were looking at.

I understand and appreciate the advice you guys are giving me on this, but leave it to Mike to pull a rabbit out of the hat with the pocketlogger dealio!



At this point I dont see needing anything other than that, assuming that the regular functions of the ecu are still there, like fuel cut for instance. The S5 N/A's run rich as it is so while the Safc might have been enough to make the Semi p-port work, this will give it that much more flexibility and the price is hard to beat! $450.00! and I've already gone though the wiring and updated the sensors from the original resto, sounds like a win/win at this point.



What standalone could I get done for that, not any one of them I would imagine...



I went way overkill on the engine I have currently, which only has 23,000 miles on it, give or take. All the high dollar mods are already done, so its really cheap to impliment the bigger ports in the plates and the Semi P-port, mod the LIM, pin the sleeves open and compromise a little low end, bump up oil pressure (a little) and bump up the fuel pressure. I'll just have to conceide to not running a turbo for a while longer while I explore this option further.

In my experience, the timing maps on the ecu suck ass for a high perf n/a motor. I was running a big streetport with a race ported exhaust. I couldnt get the stock ecu to make any power over 6k with it, just fell on its face. Went to a megasquirt running fuel only and the stock ecu controlling timing. Made great power through 9700 rpm, sometimes. Other times it felt down 10-20 ft lbs across the board. The fuel was tuned pretty well, and I spent months trying to figure out why sometimes Id have more power than others. It was like carbs, but more tempermental.

The stage2 upgrade allows for two maps for fuel and one each for leading and trailing timing, granted they are small(er) but can be adjusted WITH the fuel in the same unit. Over all it seems like a pretty cool piece of equipment. Did you look at the link?



This is stacking up to be a quick and dirty deal, that I can have done by spring easy, and if the 6speed comes with it im getting it all done for around 3 grand. 100+ more HP to the street, and 6 speed? The change outta be night and day



I remember reading the posts about the MS on your car and others, but I dont know enough to speak intelligently about them other than what I have heard, they are very DIY and require lots of fiddling, no?

They have come a long way, and require less fiddling now. You can get pre-built ones and not have too much more work than putting in a commercial standalone, but its certainly not PnP. Tuning and maps have come a long way too, but I cant be real specific since I havent messed with one in a long time. I did some catching up not too long ago, and was impressed by what I saw though.



I wouldnt count on 220 whp on even a mapped stock ecu. Id be suprised if you managed much over 180 rwhp on stock electronics.



The RX8 runs 4.44 gears, the ratios on the trans wont be as short in an RX7 with a 4.1 rear.



As beautiful as the rest of your car is, I cant help but think of the stock ecu/harness as a duck-tape and chewing gum fix.

so keep your motor- but ditch the stock ECU and its piggy backs

You would get better hp, and much better torque by bolting a turbo to your engine and putting a proper standalone on it. 6 port turbos do just fine, just keep the timing tables a bit more conservative than a 4 port, and a few PSI less boost. 10-12 PSI would prob be perfect, and I think 14-15 would still be safe on 93 octane with good tuning.

when you get bored with it- and you will- then what?

I dont really mind doing what I've mentioned now, and then going all the way later.



I guess the idea is to limp through now and enjoy a small upgrade this summer and then spend the next X months after screwing around with what I would hope to be the end-all in go fast goodies. So $1500, $2500 call it 4 grand grand now vs. 20 grand + over the next 15 months and all the time associated with it, being that I would do almost all of it myself, that's what I'm weighing.



My time has become more valuable too as im the sole proprieter of this business now so I can't really spend 5 hours at work and 10 hours in the garage after work playing with big boy toys anymore. As far as Ecu's go, it would be easier to say I know nothing about them instead of interjecting my limited tuning experience, especially on rotary engines, so I'm at the mercy of the information I can gather here along with a local rotary specific tuner which I have no relationship with, meaning it's a cash dumpster.



If I spend the money on a standalone for what I have budgeted for these quick and dirty mods, the car sits for 15 months guaranteed...

you of all people are worried about how long the car sits?

the more time you devote to it with a clear plan for how you want the car to come out will determine how well it will drive, you will put more money into your current set up and later it will be obsolete and then you will be into it for even MORE then you are now

the rx8 is basically the competition gearset with a granny gear 1st. 6th gear in the rx8 trans is SHORTER than 5th on the FC box. all the other ratios are closer, which is great on a high rpm motor.



its not a US double overdrive...