got bored, did the rats nest removal via rotary resurrection's website, everything went A-ok till I tried to start it. damn.



while I was in there I cleaned a metric-ass-ton of gunk out of my throttle body, auxillary runners, and actuators. didnt have new gaskets, and I forgot to hook up the O2 sensor. car didnt start...



hooked up the o2 sensor, no star

did the egi fuse dance, no start.

threw some oil into the engine, no start... fouled plugs.



bought all new intake gaskets (but the lower intake manifold to engine gasket's top bolt holes dont line up, threw it on anyways because I thought it should still seal) new plugs, it starts (for no more than a second or two) and dies.



messed with the idle a bit (about a 1/2 turn) and it seems to help or hurt depending on how I'm adjusting it. planning on new O2 sensor and maf sensor tomorrow, probably do the TPS too while I'm at it (I have spares of all of these laying around) becuase I've had similar gripes when those werent hooked up before (start, sputter, die) figured it might be the same if they were bad.



noticed when I took the fuel rails off the first time (to do the rats nest removal) that fuel would drain from the lines, then stop comming out. when I took it all back apart again (to do the gasket job) it wouldn't quit spitting, like it was still under pressure! (maybe 2 or 3 psi) plugged the lines till I was dont with the new gasket job and hooked it back up. is that normal?



gotta cut this short here, gotta run to work.



any ideas? I'm sure I overlooked something durring the job...

itll start for a few seconds then die no matter what with the afm unplugged.



can you keep it alive by giving it some gas?

right, the AFM, etc is hooked up now. I just meant that in the past when i was poking around under the hood I'd end up disconnecting them for whatever reason and the car would start, rev, die. thats why I'm trying them now for troubleshooting.



but no, I cant keep it alive with gas. it'll rev, but It seems to shut down every time after two seconds. like you turned the key off.

Sounds like a vac leak to me... those gaskets are sensitive sometimes and you got to be sure the mating surfaces are clean.



Here's my thought though - why would you adjust the idle screw? It was running and idling before you did all this work, so what makes you want to start adjusting things instead of focusing on the parts you did mess with? Not trying to bash on you, but debugging issues becomes increasingly harder the more things you start messing with...

Idle screw: last step of the rats nest removal says to bump it up a bit and adjust when warm.



thought about the vac leak, I had the surfaces clean but I guess it wouldnt hurt to throw a bead of RTV on em huh? I'm still tinkering though, still got a little more troubleshooting to do before I start to panic.



quote of the week: "if it aint broke, fix it till it is"

IMHO there are no real "steps" to the removal as it is all going to be affected by your car, your climate, etc.



The idle adjust screw is pretty sensitive too, I would go back and check the mating surfaces of all your gaskets, and adjust your TPS.



You can use starter fluid (ethanol) to locate a vac leak...just have a friend get the car to hold a certain RPM as low as it will go and spray around the manifolds until you pinpoint the leak.

Forgot to mention - the engine will rev on it's own when the ethanol is sucked in by the leak..thats how you'll know where the leak is.

car dont run long enough to do the starter fluid trick. sorry man. like I said though, more troublesooting to come. I'm working 6-12's right now, so getting the time to work on my car is kinda hard. tommorrow (before work) I think I'll throw some sealant on those gaskets. if the gasket sealant doesnt work, and the sensors (mentioned above) dont work I'll start to panic. till then.... wish me luck (I'm almost outta beer)



hope I dont have to resort to my whiskey stash

shoot its getting sporty...



update:

threw some sealant on the gaskets (lower intake manifold to engine, upper intake manifold to lower, and lower intake to dynamic chamber) double checked all my vacuum lines and caps, all appear to be set and not leaking (with the exception of the four oil injection vac lines, which I'll replace here in a few)



I was thinking it might be a faulty or disconnected sensor, as they tend to cause similar problems so I went and checked al of them. I metered the tps and it checks ok, brand new O2 sensor, I swapped the MAF with a known good (I dont know how to meter those) and the MAP meters good at atmospheric pressure (3.5 ohms)



am I missing something here, I'm starting to get doubts here (not to mention I'm getting sick of driving my truck)



the only other thing I could think of is I didnt replace the BAC valve gasket when I put on my (home made) blank off plate (I used alluminum)



it'll start after cranking for a long while, I can strait rev (like a vrooOOOM to 2.5k rpms) for a two count (one... two...) then it the car shuts down. on the down stroke (down from the 2.5k RPMs) I can pump the gas, let off the gas, or yell and I cant get it to hit again untill I crank it a bunch more.



I tried reconnecting the electrical goodies I took out BAC, etc and it did the same thing.



maybe an ecu relay or something somewhere not kicking over?



one320B:

how do you adjust the TPS, the chiltons says 1k ohm closed throttle, 5k ohms at WOT. when I metered it, there was no inbetween, it was just closed (1k) and open (5k)

forgot: is there any way to meter out an O2 sensor (with a multimeter) a certain resistance value it should have going through it, or a certain voltage it should get after the car starts? (maybe 12vdc) if there is supposed to be voltage I didnt get it last time I tried to start my car. anyone know what pin it is on the ecu?



I only ask because when I got my exhaust I broke the stock o2 senor off and the car did the same thing with it disconnected... maybe I broke the wire this time.

Crank and immediately stall problems are classic vacuum leak symptoms. Leaks areound the injectors are often overlooked. Rats nest removals present a bunch of possibilities for vacuum problems. You really need to go back and retrace your steps in the process....particularly if the car was workin OK before the work was done.

swapped fuel lines... embarassing, to say the least. thanks for all the help though guys, I really appreciate it. I tell you what, if nothing else came out of this: that intake manifold is sealed up tighter than.... well, you know.



thanks again.

-Hill

on a side note, a disconnected o2 sensor wont cause youre car to stall, not start, not run, or do anything other then prevent it from going into closed loop which will just make it run richer and use more gas.



the o2 sensor isnt even needed.



kevin.

not to dog ya man, but when I put on the headers (a few years back) I broke the old 02 out of the old exhaust. with the new headers hooked up without an o2 connected to the system the car would start, rev to 3k and die. as soon as I got the new o2 in the mail and installed it it ran like a champ.

idk but my car runs w/ no o2 sensor

idk but my car runs w/ no o2 sensor

ok hillbilly not to attack you or anything.



but i am telling you, no matter what, any car in the world you can unplug the o2 sensor and not notice anything but a check engine light. i know how the ecu sees the o2 signal and know what the o2 signal is used for etc in the car's ecu. i am guaran-damn-teeing you that the ecu could careless about your o2 sensor.



kevin.

O2 sensor what is that?



The wire has been broke on mine for god knows how long, I get 18+ mpg driving the car everyday beating the **** out of it. If ur car is an s4 throw that POS in the trash along with just about everything else hanging off motor.



1. check spark

2. check fuel (make sure you didnt accidentally put the lines on backwards, trust me its easy I did it)

3. Redo step one and two.

4. have compresion checked.

5. If one thorugh 4 no worky. Stop messing with the car and call someone who knows what they are doing.

eh, no biggie. knowing my car it probably had other problems plauging it that I didnt now about and the o2 sensor was the final straw that time. I now the oil seals were shitty then, then a year later I cooked a coolant seal (convincing me to quit procrastonating and rebuild the damn thng) six months after THAT (when I tore it apart) I found a chipped corner seal. so yeah.