2nd Generation Specific 1986-1992 Discussion

Cold Natured Bitch...

Old 02-02-2004, 08:12 AM
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I am ready to take out a policy on my seven and push it off a cliff and buy an eight!



I came back from the International Motorcycle show in Cleveland and tried to start my car yesterday. We have had 30 degree highs for the last week or so.



The engine turns over but not too fast. The starter seems to be engaging well and running strong. After de-flooding I actually got it to start but it died immediately! When it did start it sounded like it was laboring at 1200 RPMs. So I pulled the plugs and cleaned them up a little with brake cleaner and a soft brush. I applied anti-seize compound and put them back in. It still would not start! I got tired of charging batteries so I just returned my battery and will try it again today with a new one plus it will be in the 50's today. <--HEATWAVE--=



Since I only get close to starting after de-flooding I am thinking I might have a leaky injector or other fuel issues. I have not checked the spark yet though.



86 GXL dual catback exhaust with no other mods. 98K miles on the clock but from title research it looks like it was rolled back at least 15K maybe 25K.



Any suggestions or advice would help lots. I gotta get this car running quickly cause my rental car has to go back today. And my Pontiac will not be out of the shop until late this week at best. Thanx
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Old 02-02-2004, 08:15 AM
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Check for vacuum leaks? I had a hose loose, hard to start; and when it did, I had to stay on the throttle or it would die.
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Old 02-02-2004, 09:10 AM
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your path to the leaking injector sounds right, the more it floods the more likely your plugs have fouled. Check your spark, you want a crisp blue not a white or orange. Also look for cracks in the inlet tube to the throttle body after the air flow sensor. Do what you can to search for vacuum leaks as well. When you first turn the key does the fuel pump run everytime or does it do it once for 3-5 seconds and stop?



Is there any hesitation present when pushing the throttle under a slight load or a heavy load? not the 3800 hesitation but more of a lag as the fuel pump may be trying to catch up? And one last thing, try pulling the air filter out and starting the car, although the air filter may be new, due to the weather you currently have there may be moisture in the filter element that may be freezing and blocking air flow when the car sits for a while.



I know these are not all inclusive to what may be wrong with the car, but it should give you a good start.
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Old 02-02-2004, 09:30 AM
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do you use 20W-50? That could make it turn over slowly when you first try and start it in really cold weather.
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Old 02-02-2004, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by TheCamel' date='Feb 2 2004, 07:10 AM
When you first turn the key does the fuel pump run everytime or does it do it once for 3-5 seconds and stop?



Is there any hesitation present when pushing the throttle under a slight load or a heavy load? not the 3800 hesitation but more of a lag as the fuel pump may be trying to catch up

I know these are not all inclusive to what may be wrong with the car, but it should give you a good start.
The fuel pump does not run constantly when I am trying to start it. It churns for about 5 seconds. But I will double check this when I get home today.



I know there are no cracks in between the air filter and the TB. But as far as other vacuum leaks I need to get on that instead of just talking about it. My dad and I used to look for vacuum leaks on 12A's with a propane tank and nozzle. You open it up just a little bit and run the nozzle near vac lines. When you get a surge in RPMs you have found a leak



I do recall there beeing a slight hesitation (when it did run) and it was the entire RPM band at zero load and under load. The more I got into the pedal the more it seemed to hesitate. It almost felt like a piston engine that had a miss or bad gas. In fact, I attributed this hesitation to bad gas. I got it at a junk yard and did not drain out the 1/4 tank of gas it had but just added a higher octane gas and MMO. Not the smartest thing to do but live and learn... Since then I have only driven the car 60 miles (no title) and idled it for a little while.



I have a replacement fuel filter and I will check the fuel pump when it warms up or I get access to a garage. Come to think of it, hesitation under acceleration could be debris in the tank getting sucked up into the pick up and then settling again, yes?



Thanx all, keep it coming...
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Old 02-02-2004, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by rmaiersg' date='Feb 2 2004, 07:30 AM
do you use 20W-50? That could make it turn over slowly when you first try and start it in really cold weather.
No I am using 10w30. No mods plus it is ***** cold here
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Old 02-02-2004, 09:53 AM
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Yeah a weak fuel pump may be causing this, and do not forget to pull the air filter as well. Be nice to her, a new set of plugs and wires might be in order as well.



As far as the fuel, we have the drain plug in our tanks, drain it out, pull the fuel pump access and take a look inside the tank, these cars are old enough that water in the gas over the years may have deteriorated the internals of the tank and rust and sediment may be clogging the pump filter as well. As you can tell I am trying to get you back on the road with minimal cash outlay from yourself to get this fixed. Or at least get you running until you get your daily driver back out of the shop and can spend some more time diagnosing the problem.



After you have more time it might be worth your while to send all the injectors out for a good cleaning.
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Old 02-02-2004, 04:49 PM
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late breaking development...



I deflooded the car and it started for like 5 seconds with a new battery. However, the wierdest thing happened. The whole time my tachometer needle has been bobbing and when it started the tach went dead. It was idling at what sounded like 600-800 RPM (too low for this cold).



I figured this was not a good sign and stopped trying to start it to avoid farking something up real good.
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Old 02-02-2004, 05:02 PM
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everytime I start my 86 its a gamble of what will or will not work on the dashboard, the tach works about 70% of the time, and the voltage gauge about 40% so don't worry and the clock hell if it comes on its a miracle, its never the right time
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Old 02-03-2004, 12:15 PM
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Something just dawned on me...



I have never compression tested this seven and it did sit for almost three years. (it started before just fine and I even put 69 miles on it before this)



As I was cranking it over the exhaust did not smell like raw gas. It smelled like it was semi spent and there was a little bit of smoke. Almost like partial combustion was taking place but there was not enough compression for total combustion to occur.



By the way the spark is nice and blue on all four plugs, I removed the air filter (taking great pains to ingest nothing foreign) and it seemd to not make a difference as it was dry and free flowing.



Thanx for all the help guys, keep it coming.
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