$600 For Front Cover Removal?
02-14-2003, 11:57 AM
#11
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Originally Posted by pengaru' date='Feb 14 2003, 12:52 PM
[quote name='FCmaniac' date='Feb 14 2003, 11:35 AM'] I asked KDR for a quote on pulling the front cover to replace that damn leaking o-ring and front oil seal, he said $600! $75 an hour for 8 hours. I didnt realize pulling the front cover was an 8 hour job. I'm going to do it myself but its so damn cold and the car is pretty much stuck in the tiny garage until spring. I already have no AP, AC, PS, accesory bracket or fan.
Tell me if this is the right order and everything:
1) remove water pump and main pullies
2) drop oil pan
3) remove CAS
4) remove OMP and lines
5) remove alternator and bracket
6) remove water pump
7) remove oil line from oil cooler
8) remove front cover
All this just to replace one tiny o-ring?! The front seal is not even leaking unless it somehow is leaking into the front cover on the other side... I'm just going to replace it anyway. I'm talking about that o-ring that goes with the front cover gasket (mazdatrix has that S4 o-ring leak write up).
Here's the parts I have:
new front oil seal, o-ring, 79-85 front cover gasket, permatex ultra copper silicone RTV, RB main pulley, FC3S oil pellet
Do I need anything else? Do I have to have the clutch pushed in the whole time I'm doing this to avoid the bearing issue? I have Hylomar too... should I use that instead of the gasket maker or front cover gasket? What should I use to hold the o ring in place when putting the cover back on?
Thanks,
chris
Tell me if this is the right order and everything:
1) remove water pump and main pullies
2) drop oil pan
3) remove CAS
4) remove OMP and lines
5) remove alternator and bracket
6) remove water pump
7) remove oil line from oil cooler
8) remove front cover
All this just to replace one tiny o-ring?! The front seal is not even leaking unless it somehow is leaking into the front cover on the other side... I'm just going to replace it anyway. I'm talking about that o-ring that goes with the front cover gasket (mazdatrix has that S4 o-ring leak write up).
Here's the parts I have:
new front oil seal, o-ring, 79-85 front cover gasket, permatex ultra copper silicone RTV, RB main pulley, FC3S oil pellet
Do I need anything else? Do I have to have the clutch pushed in the whole time I'm doing this to avoid the bearing issue? I have Hylomar too... should I use that instead of the gasket maker or front cover gasket? What should I use to hold the o ring in place when putting the cover back on?
Thanks,
chris
if you have the cash you can take the opportunity to get the aluminum main pulley and install it when you put it back together. It replaces the steel hub and the main pulley part with one aluminum piece, it's pimpy.
also, if you havent done it yet... it's also a good opportunity to install the thermopellet plug which eliminates the restriction of oil flow to the front rotor during startup... they fail and can take motors with. It's a cheap plug from mazdatrix $20 if i remember correctly.
good luck, it's gotta be a pain to do with the motor in the car...t hose oil pan bolts are awfully close to the steering rack and crossmember. [/quote]
Yeah, I have the FC3S oil pellet and RB main pulley to put on too and the steering rack and sway bar are out right now too so that should help.....
I'm concerned about the clutch thing... I'll just keep a 2x4 or something under the seat to keep the pedal pressed in I guess.
02-14-2003, 12:06 PM
#12
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Originally Posted by 75 Repu' date='Feb 14 2003, 12:56 PM
I don't remember the details, but aren't you supposed to be careful when you reassemble it so you don't mess up the thrust bearing?
02-14-2003, 03:15 PM
#18
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Location: IL
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I got mine off with a 1/2" rachet and a long *** pipe, like 6 feet long.
I bolted a piece of steel stock to the steel eccentric shaft hub and braced it against the ground to keep it from turning, it kinda damaged the hub but I didnt care as I had an aluminum replacement pulley that elminated it.
the 'torrington' bearings ARE the thrust bearings, torrington is just a manufacturer of bearings, which include thrust bearings.
you need to keep the clutch pressed so the eccentric shaft is kept in fhe forward position, when you remove the nut it's possible for the eccentric shaft to slide back and let a thrust bearing fall off the spacer and then get smashed when putting the bolt back... this is avoided if you keep the clutch pedal down. There are two thrust bearings, one on each side of the thrust plate. mazdatrix has a picture of the front pieces all seperate on the shaft so you can see the order of things... in the catalog on the site.
I bolted a piece of steel stock to the steel eccentric shaft hub and braced it against the ground to keep it from turning, it kinda damaged the hub but I didnt care as I had an aluminum replacement pulley that elminated it.
the 'torrington' bearings ARE the thrust bearings, torrington is just a manufacturer of bearings, which include thrust bearings.
you need to keep the clutch pressed so the eccentric shaft is kept in fhe forward position, when you remove the nut it's possible for the eccentric shaft to slide back and let a thrust bearing fall off the spacer and then get smashed when putting the bolt back... this is avoided if you keep the clutch pedal down. There are two thrust bearings, one on each side of the thrust plate. mazdatrix has a picture of the front pieces all seperate on the shaft so you can see the order of things... in the catalog on the site.
02-15-2003, 06:52 AM
#19
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Ok, I'm printing this thing out for reference... now I just need a warm weekend (hopefully March).
Just two more things...
Do you think I should use gaskets, Hylomar, or that Permatex RTV on the oil pan and front cover?
Pengaru, didn't you say something a while ago about putting a sealer on the oil pan bolts to prevent leaks (not loctite)?
Just two more things...
Do you think I should use gaskets, Hylomar, or that Permatex RTV on the oil pan and front cover?
Pengaru, didn't you say something a while ago about putting a sealer on the oil pan bolts to prevent leaks (not loctite)?
02-15-2003, 11:44 AM
#20
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I don't use any sealant on the bolts, theres no oil on the other side of the bolts so I've never seen a point in doing that... I just make sure the surfaces are spotless, free of oil, and both sides need to be pretty flat. Sometimes I'll use a block with some 800grit (or higher) sandpaper if theres some bad spots. It works well for scuffing the surface also to help the rtv stick.. be sure to clean it off again if you sand it at all, my pan was kindof nasty and sanding it worked quite well... I should have taken pictures. You can really just follow the shop manual, I don't like using the gasket but if it's an S4, the front cover setup kindof sucks. On an S4 I would use just the O ring with some hylomar to hold it in place, and NO gasket, just RTV. If you want to use a gasket, you need to get a older style one.. if you got it for a 2nd gen they probably gave you a gasket for the S5 O ring setup... which won't help with supporting your O ring because the S5 has the teflon ring which is larger diameter. Make sure you use a torque wrench on the oil pan and front cover bolts.
Like the shop manual says, just use the RTV bead on the inner diameter of the mating surface, if the surfaces are clean and flat, and you let this set before filling it with oil... it should seal well and prevent any oil from getting past that point. If you use excessive amounts it just makes a mess, when you torque it all down it will squeeze out into the pan, and/or out the side of the motor. Also, if you start to see some sticking out, don't clean it up! The stuff is elastic, if you torque it all down and want to clean it all up it's likely you will try wiping it and pull some out from the junction also.. especially if it has started to set. This will definately increase the probability of it leaking... just leave it be once torqued down and let it all set (see back of the tube for how long).
I'm not a mechanic though so these are just my opinions, many people I'm sure will disagree
this approach works fine for me, my engine doesnt leak.
BTW, It's a good idea to chase all the threads through on the front cover and engine housings before you reinstall the oil pan, RTV often gets in the holes during previous installations, the junk in the holes can mess up your torque gauge precision. In my case my front cover was all screwed up because it had been rebuilt before and there was so much junk in the threads when they reinstalled the oil pan, they munged up the threads. You'd need one tap to do all the oil pan bolt holes...
Like the shop manual says, just use the RTV bead on the inner diameter of the mating surface, if the surfaces are clean and flat, and you let this set before filling it with oil... it should seal well and prevent any oil from getting past that point. If you use excessive amounts it just makes a mess, when you torque it all down it will squeeze out into the pan, and/or out the side of the motor. Also, if you start to see some sticking out, don't clean it up! The stuff is elastic, if you torque it all down and want to clean it all up it's likely you will try wiping it and pull some out from the junction also.. especially if it has started to set. This will definately increase the probability of it leaking... just leave it be once torqued down and let it all set (see back of the tube for how long).
I'm not a mechanic though so these are just my opinions, many people I'm sure will disagree
BTW, It's a good idea to chase all the threads through on the front cover and engine housings before you reinstall the oil pan, RTV often gets in the holes during previous installations, the junk in the holes can mess up your torque gauge precision. In my case my front cover was all screwed up because it had been rebuilt before and there was so much junk in the threads when they reinstalled the oil pan, they munged up the threads. You'd need one tap to do all the oil pan bolt holes...