5th And 6th Ports
02-10-2004, 11:05 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 421
Okay, I have a couple of questions which may seem kind of stupid to everyone else but they aren't to me. If these questions are answered anywhere else on the forum please point me in that direction.
There has been a lot of threads about 5th and 6th port actuators and the ports not opening and it made me think. I also don't think mine are working. I tried the grease on the actuators and it did not move. I tried watching while revving past 3000 rpm and nothing moved.
I was told that even with my high flow cats and Greddy Cat-back, that there still should be enough pressure to activate these things but I don't think there is. So....
1.)What are the fifth and sixth ports for anyways (I know it sounds stupid but it gives me an idea of the whole picture of what is happening)?
2.)If they are not working, what is the result of them not functioning?
3.)If they are wired open do you really lose that much low-end torque?
4.)Is there a way to test to see if they are not working because of lack of pressure or because the actuators are just plain bad? I was thinking of maybe using a pressure source into the actuator itself to see if it moved.
I know this is basic stuff but I have never actually pulled a rotary engine apart myself. I have had a shop here in Fort Worth do the rebuild so I am not exactly sure of what happens in this area (5th and 6th ports)
I know this is probably covered all throughout the forum so please give me answers to the specific questions or point me in the direction where I can find this specific info and I will find it myself, either way...thanks for any help and info.
There has been a lot of threads about 5th and 6th port actuators and the ports not opening and it made me think. I also don't think mine are working. I tried the grease on the actuators and it did not move. I tried watching while revving past 3000 rpm and nothing moved.
I was told that even with my high flow cats and Greddy Cat-back, that there still should be enough pressure to activate these things but I don't think there is. So....
1.)What are the fifth and sixth ports for anyways (I know it sounds stupid but it gives me an idea of the whole picture of what is happening)?
2.)If they are not working, what is the result of them not functioning?
3.)If they are wired open do you really lose that much low-end torque?
4.)Is there a way to test to see if they are not working because of lack of pressure or because the actuators are just plain bad? I was thinking of maybe using a pressure source into the actuator itself to see if it moved.
I know this is basic stuff but I have never actually pulled a rotary engine apart myself. I have had a shop here in Fort Worth do the rebuild so I am not exactly sure of what happens in this area (5th and 6th ports)
I know this is probably covered all throughout the forum so please give me answers to the specific questions or point me in the direction where I can find this specific info and I will find it myself, either way...thanks for any help and info.
02-10-2004, 11:40 AM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: California
Posts: 22,465
1. they open anther port in the engine, to give more port area and duration. think of it like vtech, or secondaries on a 4 barrel carb
2. if they are stuck closed you loose power over 4500rpms* if they are open you loose under that
3. it depends, my gsl-se had more tork with the big exhaust and the ports open than it did with the small exhaust and the ports closed
4. maybe put a guage on it? it needs load to open, revving it to 3k isnt enough. usually what happens is that they carbon up and stick
2. if they are stuck closed you loose power over 4500rpms* if they are open you loose under that
3. it depends, my gsl-se had more tork with the big exhaust and the ports open than it did with the small exhaust and the ports closed
4. maybe put a guage on it? it needs load to open, revving it to 3k isnt enough. usually what happens is that they carbon up and stick
02-10-2004, 12:21 PM
#3
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 5,425
Originally Posted by j9fd3s' date='Feb 10 2004, 01:40 PM
...usually what happens is that they carbon up and stick
For my actuators, I would depress the piston, cover the holes with my fingers (make sure there's a good seal), and see if the piston would slide back out. (it didn't, so I deemed them functional)*
If the rods that connect to the sleeves spin freely, and your actuators work properly, then you might want to consider the vacuum problem, and rule out the carbon problem.
If the rods don't spin freely, you might have to remove your lower intake manifold, pull out the sleeves, and do some cleaning. Which would also be a good time to get some other things done under those intake manifolds.
*does anyone know if this is a accurate testing method? I don't remember if I read this in haynes or not
02-10-2004, 12:27 PM
#4
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 421
My rebuild has about 5000 miles on it. Can carbon build up that quickly?
I am going to work on this this weekend.
I remember someone saying to apply air pressure and see if they actuate, even those cans used to dust off computers are supposed to work.
I am going to work on this this weekend.
I remember someone saying to apply air pressure and see if they actuate, even those cans used to dust off computers are supposed to work.
02-10-2004, 01:27 PM
#6
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: California
Posts: 22,465
Originally Posted by gazellis' date='Feb 10 2004, 10:27 AM
My rebuild has about 5000 miles on it. Can carbon build up that quickly?
I am going to work on this this weekend.
I remember someone saying to apply air pressure and see if they actuate, even those cans used to dust off computers are supposed to work.
I am going to work on this this weekend.
I remember someone saying to apply air pressure and see if they actuate, even those cans used to dust off computers are supposed to work.
02-14-2004, 07:20 PM
#7
Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 52
i used a small bicycle pump.
Should the actuators on an s5 open without the car in gear? i can rev mine up in neutral and they don't open, but i know at least one works because it gets stuck open some times. I would think that since they run off the airpump they wouldn't requre load on the engine. anyone know?
Should the actuators on an s5 open without the car in gear? i can rev mine up in neutral and they don't open, but i know at least one works because it gets stuck open some times. I would think that since they run off the airpump they wouldn't requre load on the engine. anyone know?
02-14-2004, 11:04 PM
#8
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hell (Colorado School of Mines)
Posts: 521
Drop the sleeves in a bucket of carb cleaner for a couple hours to shine them right up.
I've got the LIM off to work on the aux ports right now but was wondering what 'other things' you speak of should be done while Im in there?
Thnx
Originally Posted by Baldy' date='Feb 10 2004, 11:21 AM
If the rods don't spin freely, you might have to remove your lower intake manifold, pull out the sleeves, and do some cleaning. Which would also be a good time to get some other things done under those intake manifolds.
*does anyone know if this is a accurate testing method? I don't remember if I read this in haynes or not
*does anyone know if this is a accurate testing method? I don't remember if I read this in haynes or not
I've got the LIM off to work on the aux ports right now but was wondering what 'other things' you speak of should be done while Im in there?
Thnx
02-14-2004, 11:31 PM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: California
Posts: 22,465
Originally Posted by IHEnter' date='Feb 14 2004, 05:20 PM
i used a small bicycle pump.
Should the actuators on an s5 open without the car in gear? i can rev mine up in neutral and they don't open, but i know at least one works because it gets stuck open some times. I would think that since they run off the airpump they wouldn't requre load on the engine. anyone know?
Should the actuators on an s5 open without the car in gear? i can rev mine up in neutral and they don't open, but i know at least one works because it gets stuck open some times. I would think that since they run off the airpump they wouldn't requre load on the engine. anyone know?
