As many of you know I purchased Mike Mauro's Black Fd last winter to use as the basis for a 20b project. The car is currently stripped down to a rolling chassis waiting for the new motor. The motor will be adapted to the chassis by cutting the firewall, shortening the intake manifold, and lowering the block by 3-4".



It took nearly 12 weeks, but I finally got ahold of a D-series 20b motor. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/bigok.gif The motor is currently at Roger Mandeville's shop being disassembled. Mandeville is going to rebuild, street port, clearance everything, and dynamically balance the entire rotating assembly so that the engine is safe to run at 9,000 rpms. The ETA on the engine is 4 weeks. While Mandeville's work comes at a bit of a premium I think his experience, skill, and dependability are well worth it.



Now that I am finally in the deep end on this project I decided it was time to post a thread. Hopefully this will be a short and relatively cheap journey https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...R#>/unsure.png. I will keep everyone updated on my progress in the same fashion I did for my single turbo project.



-Chris C.

glad you finally got an engine for that thing Chris... post pics as you get them.

wow... hope you have the engine tuning to back up that nice motor.

Rich bastard! Seriously though best of luck. I'd be curious to see how you end up mounting the block etc. I think alot of us would like to be knee deep into a 20b project.

[quote name='GreyGT-C' date='Jun 6 2005, 10:43 PM']glad you finally got an engine for that thing Chris... post pics as you get them.


[/quote]



I will try, but it make take a little coaxing to get Roger to snap some photos.



[quote name='Cheers!' date='Jun 7 2005, 04:27 AM']wow... hope you have the engine tuning to back up that nice motor.


[/quote]

I am planning on tuning it myself. I did my single turbo 2 rotor and am very happy with how it turned out. However, considering the cost of this motor and the fact that I have no experience with the ecu I may end up having Roger dial everything in on his engine dyno.



[quote name='Fd3BOOST' date='Jun 8 2005, 02:45 PM']Rich bastard! Seriously though best of luck. I'd be curious to see how you end up mounting the block etc. I think alot of us would like to be knee deep into a 20b project.


[/quote]

LOL. I'm not rich. I recently finished graduate school and am still living like a student, so I have some expendable income https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/bigok.gif I am really enjoying this project. It is something I have dreamed about doing for a number of years, so it is a bit of a milestone for me.



Motor

I spoke with Mandeville today. All the parts have arrived. He is going to be gone all next week testing at the Glen. He plans to start re-assembling the motor as the following week. We discussed reducing the oil pan depth from 102mm to 45MM. He said oil slosh shouldn't be an issue, even at the track, so I think I'm going to do it. I'm very happy because that allows me to drop the motor another 2" without losing any ground clearance. Finally, I purchased a second 20b upper and lower intake manifold this week and I am going to try to reduce the height of it by 2" while the motor is being assembled. If I can reduce the overall height of the motor by 4" that will save a lot of cutting to the firewall/tunnel.

If you can swing it, I highly recommend having Mandeville break it in on the dyno

i want to drive it or atleast get a ride in it

[quote name='vosko' date='Jun 9 2005, 08:26 PM']i want to drive it or atleast get a ride in it


[/quote]



The FD drivetrain in the hands of Vosko with 3 rotors attached to it. That is a scary thought!

[quote name='ccarlisi' date='Jun 10 2005, 11:17 AM']The FD drivetrain in the hands of Vosko with 3 rotors attached to it. That is a scary thought!


[/quote]



http://www.ppgearbox.com.au/html/products.htm



do it do it do it

I got a voice message from Mandeville. The core motor is in good shape with compression on all sides of all rotors and there were no metal shavings in the oil pan. The oil pan is slightly damaged. He is going to fabricate the pan for me and believes we can get it down to around 45mm, but the pickup will have to be replaced. He said the motor should be done next week. Yeah baby!!!!



I went to the NJ meet last weekend and heard my first 20b in person -the MVA RX8. It instantly put to death all doubts I was having about whether this project is worth doing.

Sounds like a cool project, I can't wait to see some pics and such, congrats.

when do you plan on finishing it Chris? Email me the info that you have on the turbo setups that we discussed. My engine is being built next week if all goes according to plan. After that, it's off to the frame shop and to be repainted after that. My sub-2300lb rolling coffin should be done soon. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png

[quote name='ccarlisi' date='Jul 12 2005, 01:53 PM']

I went to the NJ meet last weekend and heard my first 20b in person -the MVA RX8. It instantly put to death all doubts I was having about whether this project is worth doing.


[/quote]





Hearing the engine is one thing, getting a ride in one is a whole differant experiance. I seriously felt like the Joker when I got out the car. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683894.gif

[quote name='The Ultimate 7' date='Jul 16 2005, 12:04 AM']Hearing the engine is one thing, getting a ride in one is a whole differant experiance. I seriously felt like the Joker when I got out the car. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683894.gif


[/quote]



Lucky you! I was thinking of asking him for a ride, but he had 2 other people in the car and looked pretty tired, so I held back.



I spoke to Mandeville today. He is done with the rotor housings, bearings, pumps, coolant passages. He is going to balance the rotating assembly tomorrow and do the intake port work on Monday. Another fabricator that works for him is finishing up a GTP car tomorrow and is going to modify the oil pan on Monday. He expects to have the motor ready to ship out by mid week https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683329.gif



So far I haven't received any pictures from him. He seems really busy, so I hate to impose on him. I may try to talk his wife into taking a couple for me next week before he throws the whole thing back together.



Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the chassis is ready to go under the knife save for one interior electrical harness. Apparently the fenders have to come off to remove the harness. I also discovered that the sound deadening material behind the rear 1/4 panels and the firewall is what gave the interior its 'unique' smell.

Mandeville sent me a couple pictures of the motor today.



Picture 1 & 2: Overall the core motor was in very good shape. However, the oil pan is a little rough, but it should serve as a good starting point for the modified pan. Look at all those spark plugs in picture 2! https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683329.gif https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683329.gif

Because I am not certain whether I'm going to use a water/oil cooled turbo or an oil cooled turbo, Mandeville tapped the coolant opening and put together a plug that I can use if I go with oil only and an NPT to AN adaptor fitting for water/oil.

20b rotor housings with FD sleeves and large ports.

Nice large intake ports https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/boink.gif

wow, those are huge ports.

Lookin good, Chris!

No holes in the intake ports... this one's a keeper for sure.



I agree with Banzai Toyota - if he doesn't charge too much to do it, I'd have Mandeville break it in on his engine dyno.



[quote name='ccarlisi' date='Jul 27 2005, 05:07 PM']Nice large intake ports https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/boink.gif


[/quote]

[attachment=32902:attachment]



I always knew this picture would come in handy https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683785.gif

nice giraffe

[quote name='The Ultimate 7' date='Jul 16 2005, 03:04 AM']...getting a ride in one is a whole differant experiance. ...


[/quote]

doubt ya wouldve had much success...

certainly seems like the car was rigged for show only...

nice project ccarlisi... ive had to scrap mine and go back to the drawin board...

rich bastard! https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png



I'm jealous. Quit already.

[quote name='93 R1' date='Jul 28 2005, 02:25 PM']nice giraffe


[/quote]



I was wondering if anyone picked up on that. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...DIR#>/wink.png



I received more pictures from Mandeville today.

Here is a shot of the rotating assembly being dynamically balanced:

Mods to the pump:

Stacking the motor:

As those of you that have been following my 20b oil pan thread already know, we decided to shorten the height of the oil pan so the engine can be mounted lower in the chassis. I am going to make up for the loss of capacity with the oil cooler/filter assembly.

Congrats so far on the project, it looks like its in the right hands.

[quote name='93FDGT3540' date='Jul 29 2005, 04:09 PM']Congrats so far on the project, it looks like its in the right hands.


[/quote]

Thanks Mike. Hopefully all the bad luck you had was removed when I stripped all the parts off the chassis. The way I see it is, after going through five 2 rotor engines in less than 2 years the chassis owes us one;)





The motor is finished and arrived yesterday https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png . . .along with the bill https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...O_DIR#>/11.gif. I am extremely happy with Mandeville's work and service. He is by far the most professional engine builder I have dealt with. Throughout the process he took the time to keep me updated on his progress. The invoice I received from him would make an accountant proud; he detailed the cost of parts and labor for each aspect of the buildup. I wouldn't hesitate to use him again.



The chassis has been transported to the fabricator and he is planning on starting in on it today https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683329.gif https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683329.gif.

We are almost done with the chassis. The mtor and transmission are mounted. All that remains is adding some extra bracing to the subframe, filling in the large gaping hole in the firewall and paint work.



The drivetrain has been moved back about 6.5" back from its original location.

Looks really good.



Mark

Very nice project and way to go about getting your project milestone done.. Can't wait to see hear in person when she's finished..

What will you do about bumpsteer?

[quote name='jxy nyc' date='Aug 21 2005, 11:00 AM']What will you do about bumpsteer?


[/quote]



did he move the steering rack?

Thanks for the compliments guys. I moved the motor back nearly 7" to avoid moving the rack. The front part of the subframe is completely stock:)

whatd you do with the accessories behind the firewall....

strategically placed in a custom dash? I really appreciate what he has done here!



Nice work!

um... how do you change spark plugs? Isn't 1/2 the motor in the tranny tunnel now?

[quote name='amp' date='Aug 21 2005, 01:04 PM']whatd you do with the accessories behind the firewall....


[/quote]



Most of that stuff should still fit. If necessary I'll modify or replace parts with smaller parts from other cars.



[quote name='Cheers!' date='Aug 22 2005, 12:15 PM']um... how do you change spark plugs? Isn't 1/2 the motor in the tranny tunnel now?


[/quote]



The motor is not that far back. You can see the rear plugs at the entrance of the trans tunnel in one of the pictures linked above. I'm going to mount the oil filter in a remote location. I am still trying to decide what to do with the brake lines.