Hey guys, New to the site and need some help.

Do you guys remember that cp racing had a bolt in rack and pinion conversion for the 1st gen.

Does anyone know of anybody who is still makeing that setup or has one willing to sell.

I just finihed putting a 13bt-rew into my gsl-se and the thing is a little difficult to controll on the street and even more scary with the vague 1st gen steering setup.....

Another REW, great. Got any pictures?



CP racing did sell one but as you know they are long gone now. And for good reasonI hear. As I recall it was a VW R&P correct?



There are a couple other options that you have:



1. 2nd gen subframe. This would give you the R&P but you have would need to re-fab all your motor mounts.

2. Custom fab up a bracket to hold a R&P. Personally i do not advise this. There is a lot more to a steering system tham people realize. I learned this the hard way with a buggy that I built. Then again it had over 12" or suspension travel.



Personally I would just upgrade your stock suspension. There are tons of cool little add-ons that you can do. Ie. Stiffer springs better struts, Cabmer plates, turn-in spacers etc. I rode in a very tight rx7. I was surprised how well it handled compared to mine. Suspension is under rated.



Good luck.

The second gen subframe is a pretty easy conversion to do, I have done one in mine with the Rew as well, have not had a chance to drive it yet. Still building it.



Heres some pics.

I used the front bolt for the factory subframe, which in turn put me about an inch to far forward in the wheel well, But the caster is awsome, the car turns so smooth sitting still, and rolling at pushing speeds. I built all my own exhaust and turbo Manifold, the wastegates route back into a single 2 1/4" and meets up with the down pide where it goes to 4" up and over the axle and out

Thanks for the little insight guys. I have tons of flicks but Its on kodak i'll have to scan them, I spent all the money in the car so I couldnt afford a digital camera https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...>/rolleyes.gif . ( a 150.00 camera WTF https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...DIR A 6000.00 engine, OOOOhh yeah)

The engine was built in pureto rico by Vivo ( the guy who ownes bam bam and who beat rafelito before,stilll has the article framed in his office.

The sub frame sounds like a next fab job that I will have to ponder a little longer. My mind right now is dealing with the weak rear end. I just spoke to grant at grannys to do a 8.8 for the car.

I have raced a two turbo hondas and when I pull for 2nd I just walk away so easy that I just granny shift 3rd and back off the throttle and thats on 93 pump gas with a weak rear. Now no honda wants to race. On to the pony cars (well after I get my rear end)



"Where I walk I walk alone, When I fight I fight alone, Show me one who can stand against me "

Akuma

Why not get a Kaaz?

Do they have a Kaaz for a 1st gen? I have never heard about this. Here is what I would do.



1. Brace the housing so that is cannot twist

2. Install Respeeds moser axles

3. If there is a Kaaz get that as well.



I don't know why people jump on the 8.8" so quickly. The reason I have a 7 is to have a light car. Why would you want to throw an extra 80-100lbs in it. I am trying to get weight off not put weight on.

Everything is a trade off? More power means I need stronger axles more axles means more weight( more or less) I would love to keep the stock rear end But The stock rear has its limits. Its really only good up to about 250 hp even with the kaaz or torsen unit installed. I'm getting 420 rwhp on pump gas. and I want to run slicks on the track.



You see all axles flex. ALL.Even the axles in the big semi trucks with 55000lb rated axles that are thicker than your arm. the spline area is suppose to be the thickest part of the axle with the rest of the axle taperd down, this lets the load of the launch to be spread out along the complete axle. I saw an upgraded axle for the stock gsl rear on the turbo fb (yahoo) site with this axle being big and beefy BUT tapering down TO the splines. With this setup with lots of traction and power the load can not be transmitted along the entire axle and it will snap right after the splines all the time. Evertime.



So in a nut shell the axles coming out of the carrier is to small for the power.

But if someone knows of a way to stuff a bigger carrier into the stock rear let me know.





OOOOOhhhhh yeah arnt you guys suppose to be helping me with my steering https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...R#>/tongue.gif

Anybody with a cp bracket who wants to sell.



"And when I reached for the second gear I seperated the Men from the mice"

Neil

Oh and with the rear from grannys Im getting it with the turbo II bolt pattern and the tII caliper bracket so Ill just buy the big brake upgrade kit for the front from re-speed and I'll have 5 lug all around.



Now tell me that nice.





And its a daily driver

Ok, to each there own. I don't drag though with huge slicks out the back. Guess it depends what you are doing with the car. Weight savings is the name of my game.



Just trying to offer some other options. Seems like most people around here are lemmings following the leader.

Very true. It all depends on what your doing with the car.

My diesal machanic is the one who got me into rotaries. He has from the dealer lot a 1984 gsl-se rx-7 with dealer installed 4.38 gear ratio. The car is very well taken car of. I have personally seen this car on two occations snap axles and thing is bone stock except for the gear ratio.

So what are you saying? You have a rew in your fb ( hopefully its a good engine) and you don't have traction problems nor do you get the occational snapped axle? When I first got mines running If the car is already traveling and I get on the throttle to hard in 2nd or 3rd the car start to fish tail.



What do you do with your car? drag? autocross? cruise? nice to look at not to drive



Knowlegde is power and I always like to hear other peoples input to give me different ideas( yours too) but last I looked you can not break the laws of physics... for every action theirs an equal and opposite reaction..the operative word being opposite...So with this in mind I guess I'll be falling in line https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.gif

hey hey i got an 8.8 on my 79 and it dont feel much heavier ,

i tried to get axles for my stock rear bout dint find any alitle over 1 year ago oh well

I just finished my respeed 5 lug conversion. I bought the GSL SE Moser Axles to upgrade the rearend. $300. for both axles bare, plug and play. I also have a piece of 1x1 angle iron that I kerfed and welded along the top of the rear end housing to stiff things up a little. I haven't dragged raced with this setup yet. I did however snap a stock axle right at the splines drag racing about three years ago. I was running BF goodrich drag radials and launching at 5 grand. So I had that coming. Currently my turbo fb is running 270rhwp at 9 psi, I can't even imagine what 420 is like, My fb pulls like a frieght train,



I dont know what the limits of my rear end setup is, but its got to be a lot better than stock. The only way your going to break stuff is with super sticky drag radials or slicks. On street tires I thinks its a moot point, as you will overpower the tires first.

In my car when it was turboed running 265ish on street tires for 10000 miles and nothing hapened to my stock rear axles. I am not saying that they dont break, I have seen them broken road raving with far less power, thats just what I have experianced.



So on the rack and pinion parts. I know that the Cp Products one had problems with oil drains, in the way I do believe. Search CP Products on here and you will find some info on them.

Woundup is right. Street tires make all the difference. If you can't hook up you can't break anything. I have a set of bf goodrich drag radials in the garage waiting to go on the car. Maybe I will get a chance to break something when those go on.



The swap to a ford 8.8" might be inevitable. I would like to explore other options first though. Since I do not drag with the car I think that I will be in a little better situation than yourself for an upgraded rear end. If I break something no big deal. It will not be the first time for my car. When I built this car there were no recorded REW's that I could find. I had to do a lot of trial and error in putting it together.



$350, and a little time is worth the experimentation for me. The 8.8" is 700-1k commitment. One thing that is nice about ford rear ends though is that you can swap the gear ratios out pretty easily.



If I end up having to go 8.8" I will just drive up to granny's and pick one up.



Woundup, can you clarify between the different rear-ends? Which ones were stronger? Was it the earlier ones? Maybe a few more specifics would be nice.



On a side note, I think that this thread should be archived. There is a lot of good information in here.

I'm putting my brake kit together right now. My question to you is...what bolt size did you use for the axle plates?



I really didn't feel like swapping out everything for a Ford. I don't really like to do things the easy way anyways, so...hahaha.

Very true. It all depends on what you want from the car, and I'll be the first to admitt that while large clouds of smoke is impressive.............................the car is not going anywhere https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...>/rolleyes.gif



I have been throught 4 other 1st gen frames and 2 2nd gens with one being a TII and I totally understand what it means to be on a budget. So I can understand why you want to step up little by little. I also do believe that you should put just enough to make it work right (and safely) for example dont use a ford 9 inch when a 10 bolt will do the job perfectly..

84 to 85 came with the thicker axles from factory....the gsl came with a better posi unit than the gsl-se



My engine was built to hit the 600hp mark, but that will more than likely be on c16 and with about 35 to 40 lbs of boost, currently I'm running 20 lbs

And the guy with the moser upgraded axles..You are no better off than you were with the stock axles (provided they where the 84-85 axles)

Really, I can tell you how they are better in three ways, 1. I now have a common 5x114 bolt pattern to choose wheels from, no gay ass spacers/adapter b.s. 2. The axles are cnc'ed from the same forged steel stock that Moser sells to all the muscle car guys, must be somewhat good, all that torque and horsepower. 3. I pulled out my stock big bearing axles when I was running 7 psi and a crappy tune, at 220 hp and they were already twisting on the splines. Now I am running 270 and they are still holding up fine.



Before you respond with some rant about spline size, remember the other half of the equation is the metal. I am sure Zbeater, who just happens to be a mechanical engineer can chime in. If they ever break I will be sure to post it up, so every one knows, I am pretty comfindent they wont anytime soon.

I don't think that there is anything that is cost effective about my build. Done right from the start. No small steps.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlv9xclarpU



As woundup said I am an engineer, aka outside of the box thinker. I do not like doing things that do not make sense for me. I do not plan on launching the car very hard. So why put in a larger rear? The parasitic power loss through the drivetrain is signifigantly larger with an 8.8. I want to transmit as much power to the ground as possible. It is like taking a step backwards for me. For you things might be different. It sounds like you drag your car. Good deal, not my taste. If I wanted to drag a car I would have personally picked up a mustang. The FB is a great handling car once you have performed the small little modifications. I have ridden in a few FB's that were amazing on the track. You like straight lines with lots of speed I like twisties. Different strokes for different folks. I have seen some 7's that run into the 8sec range.



We could sit here and talk theories all day. What is the fun in that? I have to do that for 8-10hrs a day at work. We are here for fun, not argument. That being said, we are still waiting for pictures.

The rear studs I used were from Jeg's part no 0070100-7713 wheel studs M12x1.5 you need two packages, they were also be the same thread pitch and size as stock 2nd gen.

Hope that helps.

At least not until we upgrade that small little turbo of yours. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...DIR#>/wink.gif

There is nothing I can say without repeating myself. I'm not trying to take from anyones sunshine. Just about everything I've said is from hands on. I was just kicking a little knowledge so If you don't want it dont take it. I'm sure the axles would be made from a better material but the design is flawed. It has the same weak point right after the splines. I wonder if the engineer agrees or not? https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...>/rolleyes.gif Someone else mentioned "parasitic" Like I said before you should just put enough to make the car run (reliable, safe). example..don't put a 9inch when a 10bolt can do the job perfectly. Why? to much parasitc draw. Come on, everyone should know this



stop oocupation dropping its very tacky..If I said I was Mr.dupont would you care or even believe me? Simpley saying we all have common sense and different experiences so If the kid down the road who works at mcdonalds sounds like what hes saying has meritt I'll listen to what he has to say and if Felix wankel sounded like he's full of it, well he would be full of it and that would just be my opinion. (its just an example)



Which leads me back to the begenning...Anybody with a cp bracket intrested in selling or anybody who worked for cp on here? Or is there someone here thinking of producing this bracket again? If not well its off to the subframe

Yes.





-billy

Billy,



Have you tested the limits of these axles yet? I know they are pretty new on the market but I am curious as to how far someone has pushed your product.



I am also curious about a different diff. I was under the impression that only 2nd and 3rd gen kaaz diffs were available. Am I mistaken? I have heard of many other diffs being swapped(miata, hyundai etc) but most of them are not any more robust than the stock unit. It would be nice to have both parts of the rear-end upgraded. This way there is not a weak-point in the system.



gls-rew- I am in no way touting my degree. I bet you most of the people on the board did not even know I had it. I acknowledge there are some pretty ingenious/intelligent people without degrees. And personally could care less is someone did or did not have one. It does not make their point any less valid. A degree is just a little bit of knowledge and a piece of paper. Now let's get back on topic.



Thanks

I have never had a pair or axles from re-speed........





Is that a yes you have a bracket your willing to sell or you work(ed) for cp?

neither







-billy

ok..are you guys planning on producing your own bracket to convert to R&P ? If so when will it be ready..I have 3 other guys in my area whos looking for one.

The axles have taken a good bit a abuse before they were made public as well as since then.



We did not opt for the destructive testing available by Moser while under development. The cost of the testing, plus new mazda samples, plus new moser axles was enormous. The only benefit we saw to the testing was to be able to market them as "XX" amount stronger than stock. We did not see this benefit to out way the cost that would need to be passed on to the customer.



We opted to market them as "stronger than stock" without an absolute number. The fact that a percentage of stronger than stock number would be useless to 99.9% of the potential purchasers made the choice simple.



One only needs to look at the design of the axle and understand the years of metallurgy behind Moser to agree they are "stronger than stock".



The possibility of something else along the chain now being a weak spot is true. It is hard to say though. I spoke to one gentleman with a 1000+ HP 3 rotor in his first gen and he keeps eating ring gears but not axles. Talked to another guy with half that HP that has broken axles. There are to many variables to know 100% what needs to be upgraded.



I am from the old school of don't fix it until its broken. At least ReSpeed has axles for when you do https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.gif







-billy

Well, I for one am very happy with the moser axles. When woundup was running stock he was breaking them all the time even pre-turbo (i.e. na ported 13b).



We are not huge drag racers - maybe 1-2x's per year just to see what she will do, but do autocross and will probably do some track time. It's great to able to put the bigger, lighter and better looking wheels and tires on there so we can actually get street tires that will hold us enough to get around and to run in street tire class with our local club - we are running 235s in the back. You just can't find wide 13 street tires.



Re-speed thanks for making these products available for 1st gens, as most of you know it's difficult to find good aftermarket parts for these cars and I for one am glad you are leading the way.

"Occupation dropping is very tacky" Its where most of us spend 1/3 of our lives, eventually it comes up in conversation. Its probably no more tacky than saying, "the guy from bam bam racing built my motor for me and it cost 6000 dollars. yada yada and I can destroy Hondas only using half of 2nd gear.



BTW I would love to see some pictures of your build up, along with a dyno sheet. Otherwise I call b.s. Also what size of turbo are you running and what standalone? Please feel free to post some pics so I can eat some crow and then stfu.



If your nice to me, I share all my front end setup secrets for a nice auto cross/track FB!

Amen to that. Billy is one of maybe 3 people I've had the opportunity to work with in the automotive industry who are dedicated to their craft and to their customers (or in my case, at the time, potential customer). I have an enormous amount of respect for him and his shop and thank him for seeing a niche market in need of aftermarket support -- a market that he has seized. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/bowdown.gif



Now in an unrelated note, what wheels are you running on there? The car looks gorgeous.

We are running the 5zigen FNO Cr-1 or something like that in hyperblack. The fronts are 17x7 and the backs are 17x8. Thanks for the noticing



+1 for Billy I have tons of his product on my car, Like my wife said I glad someone is filling the market. He has spent plenty of his time on the phone with me, sorting out issues and lending helpful advice, which is appreciated. Thanks Billy, now just open up a shop in Seattle so I have some where to hang out on the weekends. LOL!

This is funny..this thread has mutated so quickly.I started this thread to try and get someone elses trail and error with the front end or even find somebody who is selling something I can use..The noises wheel gets the most attention( even the guys from re-speed is on here) so I indulged everthing else that was thrown up..If anybody feels that that I clouded there sunshine It wasn't like that ........ As for the specs the the thing is bright red with a handle and says western flyer on the side https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...DIR#>/wink.gif

The 6000 thing was just a joke I was making with the fact that I did'nt have a digital camera,I would tell anybody how much I actually payed for the cart

Yes, we are in the final stages of a rack kit. The estimated release date keeps moving so I can not say for sure. If you keep an eye out on re-speed.com it should not be much longer.



-billy

There is light at the end of the tunnel! Thank You! I'll be checking your site from now on....I guess you really are the cheif that they say you are.

Cpracing.ca had crazy prices.. I think the first R&P kit was like $600 and dident they jack it up more from there??? the first gen flush headlight kit was so spendy id rather make one myself!! It makes me wounder how much REspeed is going to charge for there R&P kit????

Rest assured that no matter how much it is, it will be the highest quality for the price for sure.