12a Summer Mods?
06-07-2004, 04:51 AM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 10
Sorry, but this has a lot of questions, i'm kind of selfish as far as this forum goes, probably because I don't know much about modifying engines. So, here we go.
(Clears Throat)
Hey, i'm the guy with the '80 GS (pics here) that got owned by a 626 on the highway last week. I go to UW in Seattle and will be home for the summer to work and put money into my RX-7 and autox at Bremerton. As far as I know the engine is completely stock. My dad bought me a t-shirt on eBay that has a picture of an FB that says "HONDA KILLER" on it, and it got me to thinking...
Is the SA22C really a Honda Killer?
My opinion at the moment is, "No. Any Accord out there can run away from your puny little 12A."
I mean, the thing only puts out 100 horse! When was that ever fast? If it was meant to be a sports car, why is it slower than a 626, meant to be a family car? Now I guess I need to make the engine a little quicker. I'm probably gonna be working minimum-wage, 40 hr weeks all summer, so I think i'll probably go with some kind of RB full exhaust package, which I think is around $500, right?
Now i'm no mechanic, but i've replaced my water pump and changed my oil and know a lot (subjective) from reading my haynes manual and rx7 forums. Do you guys think an 18 year old and his dad, if necessary (knows a lot about old truck/car engines, not so much about rotaries), could remove the emissions, A/C and air pump on the engine using the how-to on mazspeed? Would it make a difference? If I remove the clutch fan, is there an electric one out there that would fit my car?
I want to remove weight, too. All i've done as of yet is taken out the spare tire and jack, but I want the interior to remain as pretty as it is, since the PO restored it. So removing the passenger seat, cloth, CD player, and other interior niceties are out of the picture. I want to get the car down 200 lbs without ruining the look of the interior. Maybe I better hit the gym, I could stand to lose 10lbs and be 165 again. Any suggestions there?
The 12A has 133k on it, can someone give me the lowdown on the potential for a street port? I know the basics of porting a rotary, but what results does one find on a 12A? How much would this cost? Is my engine too old? Who makes a cheap upgrade for my questionable fuel pump?
What else can I do to my car to make it faster for less than $500? I want to do a lot of autocrossing this summer or go to a racing clinic to be a better/safer driver, but since the SA22C's weak point is its power, not its handling, I figure suspension and swapping out the rear end for the GSL can wait until i've got some power to work with.
What do you think about my situation? Will my 24-year old underdog ever be able to stand up to my buddy's 92 stock civic DX hatchback? What do I do? Something someone once commented really sticks in my mind: "Just tell them what I tell people that I lose to in a drag race-- 'I'd out handle you.' " Then this other guy comments and says "The thing is, you probably wouldn't." Was that a slam on the car's handling, or the driver's skill? Is handling measured in Gs?
People really overestimate my car's strength when they see it for the first time. Please, please please reply and tell me what you think, I really need some reassurance from people who know what to do. Thank you, I don't know what i'd do without you guys.
Joe
(Clears Throat)
Hey, i'm the guy with the '80 GS (pics here) that got owned by a 626 on the highway last week. I go to UW in Seattle and will be home for the summer to work and put money into my RX-7 and autox at Bremerton. As far as I know the engine is completely stock. My dad bought me a t-shirt on eBay that has a picture of an FB that says "HONDA KILLER" on it, and it got me to thinking...
Is the SA22C really a Honda Killer?
My opinion at the moment is, "No. Any Accord out there can run away from your puny little 12A."
I mean, the thing only puts out 100 horse! When was that ever fast? If it was meant to be a sports car, why is it slower than a 626, meant to be a family car? Now I guess I need to make the engine a little quicker. I'm probably gonna be working minimum-wage, 40 hr weeks all summer, so I think i'll probably go with some kind of RB full exhaust package, which I think is around $500, right?
Now i'm no mechanic, but i've replaced my water pump and changed my oil and know a lot (subjective) from reading my haynes manual and rx7 forums. Do you guys think an 18 year old and his dad, if necessary (knows a lot about old truck/car engines, not so much about rotaries), could remove the emissions, A/C and air pump on the engine using the how-to on mazspeed? Would it make a difference? If I remove the clutch fan, is there an electric one out there that would fit my car?
I want to remove weight, too. All i've done as of yet is taken out the spare tire and jack, but I want the interior to remain as pretty as it is, since the PO restored it. So removing the passenger seat, cloth, CD player, and other interior niceties are out of the picture. I want to get the car down 200 lbs without ruining the look of the interior. Maybe I better hit the gym, I could stand to lose 10lbs and be 165 again. Any suggestions there?
The 12A has 133k on it, can someone give me the lowdown on the potential for a street port? I know the basics of porting a rotary, but what results does one find on a 12A? How much would this cost? Is my engine too old? Who makes a cheap upgrade for my questionable fuel pump?
What else can I do to my car to make it faster for less than $500? I want to do a lot of autocrossing this summer or go to a racing clinic to be a better/safer driver, but since the SA22C's weak point is its power, not its handling, I figure suspension and swapping out the rear end for the GSL can wait until i've got some power to work with.
What do you think about my situation? Will my 24-year old underdog ever be able to stand up to my buddy's 92 stock civic DX hatchback? What do I do? Something someone once commented really sticks in my mind: "Just tell them what I tell people that I lose to in a drag race-- 'I'd out handle you.' " Then this other guy comments and says "The thing is, you probably wouldn't." Was that a slam on the car's handling, or the driver's skill? Is handling measured in Gs?
People really overestimate my car's strength when they see it for the first time. Please, please please reply and tell me what you think, I really need some reassurance from people who know what to do. Thank you, I don't know what i'd do without you guys.
Joe
06-07-2004, 07:53 AM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,788
Originally Posted by joeberentsen' date='Jun 7 2004, 05:51 PM
Do you guys think an 18 year old and his dad, if necessary (knows a lot about old truck/car engines, not so much about rotaries), could remove the emissions, A/C and air pump on the engine using the how-to on mazspeed? Would it make a difference? If I remove the clutch fan, is there an electric one out there that would fit my car?
Maybe I better hit the gym, I could stand to lose 10lbs and be 165 again.
I figure suspension and swapping out the rear end for the GSL can wait until i've got some power to work with.
Will my 24-year old underdog ever be able to stand up to my buddy's 92 stock civic DX hatchback?
Maybe I better hit the gym, I could stand to lose 10lbs and be 165 again.
I figure suspension and swapping out the rear end for the GSL can wait until i've got some power to work with.
Will my 24-year old underdog ever be able to stand up to my buddy's 92 stock civic DX hatchback?
06-07-2004, 08:08 AM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 480
There's a pretty good chance your car isn't running up to snuff to begin with. There are many things that could hurt performance.
I'm pretty sure my Accord would pull away from an SA off the line, but would be pretty even after that.
Although performance (even perfectly running) is lackluster by today's standards, it was good at the time.
My street ported 12A FB ran ~14.0 (plus or minus a little) on street tires - there's plenty of potential there.
I'm pretty sure my Accord would pull away from an SA off the line, but would be pretty even after that.
Although performance (even perfectly running) is lackluster by today's standards, it was good at the time.
My street ported 12A FB ran ~14.0 (plus or minus a little) on street tires - there's plenty of potential there.
06-07-2004, 08:26 AM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,788
Basically, the most common mods on a non-existant budget are:
Cold air intake
Rats nest removal
DLIDFIS
If you've got some cash, go:
E-fan
Headers
Getting your 12a ported and rebuilt will cost you a lot more than $500.
Cold air intake
Rats nest removal
DLIDFIS
If you've got some cash, go:
E-fan
Headers
Getting your 12a ported and rebuilt will cost you a lot more than $500.
06-07-2004, 08:55 AM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: California
Posts: 22,465
you should be able to waste a stock 92 dx civic, they are slow and its one of the worst handling cars ive ever driven.
make sure the secondaries on the carb are opening, at full throttle you should be able to feel a little "kick" between 3500-4000
make sure the secondaries on the carb are opening, at full throttle you should be able to feel a little "kick" between 3500-4000
06-07-2004, 09:34 AM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: PA
Posts: 354
It does sound like something may be up with your car. I'd definitely check that the carb is working right and tuned correctly. You will also notice an increase in power after doing the intake/exhaust/ignition/rat's nest mods...and yes you should be able to handle this by yourself with basic mechanical skills.
Also...and please don't take offense to this, it may be how you're driving the car. I know when I first got my GSL-SE (I was 17), I knew nothing about a rotary and how they ran and where the power was. I was used to driving my truck, which I shifted at about 4000 RPM and drove the car similarly. I lost a streetrace to a GEO TRACKER and started wondering why. I learned to shift near redline and that the car performs well when you are really pushing it. It's made to run in the high revs...and that can take some getting used to.
Also...and please don't take offense to this, it may be how you're driving the car. I know when I first got my GSL-SE (I was 17), I knew nothing about a rotary and how they ran and where the power was. I was used to driving my truck, which I shifted at about 4000 RPM and drove the car similarly. I lost a streetrace to a GEO TRACKER and started wondering why. I learned to shift near redline and that the car performs well when you are really pushing it. It's made to run in the high revs...and that can take some getting used to.
06-07-2004, 10:39 AM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 480
Remember the secondaries won't really open in neutral. You can feel the linkage move a little bit, but doesn't represent actual driving. Unhook the secondary linkage and see if you lose a bunch of power. If not, they aren't working.
You might want to find an 81-82 flywheel - much better than the boat anchor you've got now. Also an 83-85 fuel pump is probably an upgrade, and probably bolts right up (I think...as long as you get the whole plate). Also it might be good to run a new fuel pump wire, as the old one is likely showing some age. I don't know if this affects the little stock pump much, but I know it wouldn't feed my Mallory worth a damn.
You might want to find an 81-82 flywheel - much better than the boat anchor you've got now. Also an 83-85 fuel pump is probably an upgrade, and probably bolts right up (I think...as long as you get the whole plate). Also it might be good to run a new fuel pump wire, as the old one is likely showing some age. I don't know if this affects the little stock pump much, but I know it wouldn't feed my Mallory worth a damn.
06-07-2004, 12:07 PM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 480
A couple more things (maybe someone can comment on these):
-The thermal reactor has nozzles inside oriented to maximize swirl and transit time (read: trash flow). You can probably remove them for a few free HP.
-You could always replace the reactor with an FB exhaust manifold. Not as good as headers, but dirt cheap (and easier to get a tolerable exhaust note - headers are picky about muffler type). On my other 12A car I didn't notice a difference between headers and the stock manifold (other than sound), but I think I had max'ed out the rest of the system.
-The SA muffler is more restrictive than the FB. I would say though that you are better off replacing it altogether with something better flowing with a larger diameter pipe (2 1/4, 2 1/2)
-You can block off the coolant passages to the intake manifold. Might be worth a couple HP. Just don't port match the primary runners to the motor. They are way off, but that's on purpose. You can probably clean up the runners if there's any casting flash.
-The thermal reactor has nozzles inside oriented to maximize swirl and transit time (read: trash flow). You can probably remove them for a few free HP.
-You could always replace the reactor with an FB exhaust manifold. Not as good as headers, but dirt cheap (and easier to get a tolerable exhaust note - headers are picky about muffler type). On my other 12A car I didn't notice a difference between headers and the stock manifold (other than sound), but I think I had max'ed out the rest of the system.
-The SA muffler is more restrictive than the FB. I would say though that you are better off replacing it altogether with something better flowing with a larger diameter pipe (2 1/4, 2 1/2)
-You can block off the coolant passages to the intake manifold. Might be worth a couple HP. Just don't port match the primary runners to the motor. They are way off, but that's on purpose. You can probably clean up the runners if there's any casting flash.