Hi,



now don't shoot me, but i got a strange question:

would it theoretically work, to inject water into the exhaust manifold, to spool big turbos? the injected water would become steam and thus expand rapidly. that would be a kind of antilag, or am i missing something?

i said theoretically, because you obviously would have to work out something special, since you can't just screw in a water nozzle in a super hot manifold and expect it to work.

but what about the idea itself?



Chris

kinda how a train works? hmm i wonder if water expands enough to matter?

Any water that ended up in the combustion chamber would **** up the process because water doesn't compress in any state. Therefore you would have to be able to purge all of the water somehow.

He ment into the exhaust manifold. It would not go back into the combustion chamber

i think the sudden drop of temperature will greatly slow down the exhaust air because warm air moves faster , and also, it will make the exhaust gas more dense, so whatever expansion the water will make will make the exhaust more dense.... i could be wrong though

It would certainly make it blow a lot of smoke, or steam rather.

https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683785.gif my car is not smoking officer its just pissed and letting off steam.

When you inject water into the exhaust it will boil and increase the manifold pressure and decrease the exhaust gas temp. This will allow the turbine to extract more work, however the increase in manifold pressure will also mean increased backpressure on the engine.



This will make for an interesting thermo problem. What is the typical flow rate and pressure through the manifold?

Neat idea, but repeatedly spraying cool water into an exhaust manifold will cause it to crack.

i had a thought about this too, but my ideal was to shot Nitrous Oxide at an angle from the manifold to the turbine to serve as a pre-spool

thanks for the kind replies, guys.

i also thought about the backpressure. i think the injection of the water must be timed like fuel injection, maybe somewhere at Bottom-TDC after the combustion, where the exhaust port is fully open, but not the intake...i dont know, just thinking loudly. these questions can only be answered with testing i guess.

the problem with nitrous injection into the exhaust manifold is that you can't just fill up nitrous anywhere (but you can buy a bottle of water everywhere) and you would increase turbo inlet temperature where water drops it actually.



FikseRxSeven:

" think the sudden drop of temperature will greatly slow down the exhaust air because warm air moves faster , and also, it will make the exhaust gas more dense, so whatever expansion the water will make will make the exhaust more dense.... i could be wrong though"





that's right, but it's always a trade off. the question is: would the pros outwheigh the cons? https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png

i'd try it in a heartbeat, but no money or time at the moment.

oh yeah.. i think this will make a care almost impossible to tune, spraying water or nitrous oxide after combustion will make inaccurate EGT and AFR readings.

how about electrical per-spool, using magnets, negative with negative creating that pushing force. hahah i might be flamed i should stop posting lol

lag is overrated... i used to think it would be the worst thing in the world... now that i have a TO4R, it aint all that bad, hell you dont even notice it... even with a TO4R

wise words https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683894.gif

Sorry to get https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683621.gif but does this mean your car is tuned and driving now?

its been tuned... dragon tuned the car(a little extra rich of course) for me to get my breakin goin. the car is pretty much tuned for 15lbs up to 6000rpm. so i havent really stepped on it.. but i can feel how boost lag is overrated https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png



thanks for asking dave https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...DIR#>/wink.png

It sounds like that people with sinlge turbo "MISS" having thier twin turbo setup.



I've seen people in other cars with this problem use a dry nitrous system to get to the rpms where boost is beginning with with a spring load switch on the shifter or a boost pressure sensor what will but off the nitrous. the hard part from what i understand is try to work out a sweet spoot with this transition between nitrous and turbo boost so that you dont get bogged down or have to much of a HP spike at a mid range rpm.





WOT start in 1st gear with nitrous. Use it until where your turbo comes on strong.



kill you NO2 by releasing your spring loaded switch or it being cut off with pressure sensor.





SAFETY

you can have fail safes or "GO" triggers



1. connected to the gas pedal pressure sensor when you put it down all the way



2. a switch to engage your nitorus.



3. neutral switch (when you shift)



4. pressure swith turns on when you reach a psi that you set it at



so that set up would be turn on your bottle (trigger#2) - launch at WOT (trigger #1)

just put the trigger in series.



and let the presure sensor or neutal swich kill NO2 .







I've seen both types of set ups the (manual) spring loaded trigger and the (automatic) multiple "GO" triggers.



the best part you use less nitrous then normal WOT applications. you will just use the nitorus for maybe 3 seconds at the most. Nitrous at the low rpms hits like a hammer.

I am most likley going to run a wet 50 shot in my car. I doubt it will need it, but if i do https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png



<- my TT setup

i discovered a kooky lil way to prevent lag before hitting my "sweet spot" on the RPMs....... i take that funny looking thing sticking out of the top of the transmission and downshift if my RPMs are too low to effectively make boost.

lol https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683473.gif

It works. The expansion of the water effectively reduces the A/R of the turbine. If you hunt around on the MSD site you will see a variable WI system they sell for 2-strokes that varies the EG density to change the effective tuned frequency of the system.



The extra flow more than compensates for the temperature drop.



Bill

spend your time and money buying a better turbo, manifold and porting.





I've never met anyone who missed their twin turbos aftering buying a single, other than missing the cash it cost them.

Bill, MSD? never heard of that, can you please explain.

MSD, you know the guys who make the 6A CDI ignition

https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/blink.png https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...DIR#>/ohmy.png

they stole my idea!

http://www.factorydirectperformance.com/inject.htm

haha

water doesnt compress in any state you say.. isnt that funny... im an engineer and work with compressed h2o on a daily basis... when water heats to a gas it will pressurize.

I think that system is more for NA cars rather than turbo.



there was a similar item that was offered in a hoax group buy here in the forum about a year back. it was a co2 system that sprayed ice cold air by the muffler. in theory this would make a low pressure area after the jets causing the the very hot and high pressured air to move faster towards the more dense, high pressure area.

considering water injection has been used since pre-world war 2 maybe even earlier

yepp but for anti-detonation purpose.

i don't think hitler spooeld his T51-KAI Benz with it