Last time we covered all the pre build inspections and cleaning but did not get to the assembly. I will touch in that a tad bi this time maybe you can pick up a few more things.



Here is our motor parts ready to be assembled and the rotors have been built. We covered this last time on checking side seals corner seals and clearance between them. Please see the Archives for this information.

Attachment 19473

I took pics but they loaded on another computer that is down right now on assembling the oil control orings. I will try and talk this one out. I take the control ring and pore 20x50 royal purple in a cap poring it down the grove to coat the ring. Add a few dabs of patrolium to help stick the oring and coat the oring in the oil to coat it. Place the oring into or around the control ring rub fingers around lube it really well. See the FSM or Haynes on what way to place the oil control orings into the rotors then spread a light coat of assembly lube in the groves and around the edges. We are trying to avoid any hot spots of metal when the motor heats up without lube and burn the oring up. If you add to much lube into the grove you will hydro lock the ring and you will not be bale to push the control ring into place. When you have seated it use a 2x4 and gently push the ring down into place, be sure to use the square notch in the ring to line up with the spring tab.

Now place our front Iron on the stand I use patrolium jelly or naval jelly to help hold the coolant seals in place. I do not use hylomar I do not like it and I think it could have some adverse affects on sealing or life potential.



The side seals pack in a few spots patrolium and place the seal in with the ends facing up then do this again for the seal to help hold them in place. Add some patrolium into the corner grove add the spring some more to hold the corner seal in next. Add some more into the apex groves and slide the apex seal in and install the springs after you place the rotor in the motor.

Attachment 19474

screw your stationary gear in place the rotor in and then work the shaft down. I lube all the bearings and shaft with patrolium. Now is the time to place the springs into the grove little one first then push the big one in.

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This motor was Atkins seals and they were to large so I needed to sand them and lap the side assist piece.

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Now push the shaft up with your leg and have the lobe facing the intake port, gently rock on the int iron and lower them in a unit using the dowel pins as the seat guide. Don't forget the brush able RTV or Permatex 300 on the legs.

Attachment 19478

Slide the rotor down onto the shaft and place the rotor 180o off from the other one then slide the housing on.

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Coat the tension bolts with RTV and anti seize on the threads. Check the archived thread for proper dies to use.

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When you put the pump together take it apart pack it and lube everything with patrolium, this keeps the pump from running dry on start up.

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Check the end play of the motor be sure to not lube the parts this time.

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thermal pellet

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brush able rtv thin coat along the coper crush washer and blue lock tite on the threads.

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Very nice write up ice. Looks great!

awesomness.

Why would you "lap" the seals? You should use a file or a honing stone on the seal groove, not the seal it self, half the time it's crap that wasn't cleaned out.



Where are you checking endplay? On the counter weight or on the chain?

I do not know to be polite or slap you.



What idiot would even consider checking the end play on the chain?

The seal thickness was out of spec itself there are tolerances on the seal itself not just the grove and grove space. The seal needed to be lapped much like a side seal. You do not lap the sealing surface you lap the side for thickness.

No ****, I build my engine with Atkins seals they were perfectly in spec

(everyone of them, they are precision ground), I know how you lap something, and thats not it, you use an abrasive compound, not sandpaper, side seals are clearanced, not lapped.

Actually I guess in some places using sandpaper is considered lapping, so I stand corrected, as for the chain I was asking out of shear curiosity, I meant nothing by it. I guess I can not be a dick head, who would have known?

Ok screw it, I'll even give you clearancing the side seals as lapping, so I'll shut my mouth, even tho you lap to make things perfectly flat. I've done enough of it in trades school but terms are tossed around, so people use different meanings.



Seems the edit dealing isn't working...

looks like another great job to me.

There is no need to be a dick and I found your post quite insulting!



Maybe your seals were perfect but mine were not in spec!

Easy fellas! Back on track! https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.gif

Hope those water jacket o-rings aren't Rotary Aviation.



B

why?

You mixed S4 and S5 rotor housings. The trailing spark plug holes are in a different location.

It won't cause a problem. I did it on one of my motors 8 years ago. Never an issue, fortunately.



B

https://www.nopistons.com/forums/ind...howtopic=67208



B

THe s4 housing will knock before the s5 housing. The s5 chamber will also have lower emissions than the s4.

It would not make a bit of difference if they were s5 and S4 and off. It would only matter if more then one chamber fired at the same time. Since the chambers fire 50% corolation it is irrelevant. If they were drastic on a big turbo motor it would need to be tuned out or avoided all together.

It does make difference, with the same amount of timing, the flame starts earlier on the recess of the rotor with an s5 housing, there is a power difference between the 2 sets of housings and spark plug location. It also changes how fuel efficient the motor is. With the s5 and FD the flame front can be started at the front of the recess with a lesser amount of ignition advance, to get an s4 to start the burn at the same point of the recess, it needs more advance, which increases the chance of knock, its part of the reason the compression could be bumped from s4 to s5 na and turbo. The s4 location is said to be better for super high rpms, when early advance is needed. But with the slightly earlier burn start of the s4, the pressure wave would push the charge below the flame front and compress it, causing it to knock at a given e-shaft angle, lower compression was apparently the first step around it, but by starting the flame front earlier and the same e shaft angle, it reduced the amount of unburnt charge below flame front to knock.. And compression could be raised once more, since the motor was less detonation prone.

It doesnt matter that they dont fire at the same time, 2 differnt power levels will accelarate the e-shaft at 2 differnt rates, doesnt make for a smooth running motor, god know what it would do to the harmonics in the motor, if power leves didnt matter between the rotors, Mazda would not have bothered with a compression variance number..

20psi variance thats allot for the tolerance. The power difference found from that and the change of timing locations is far greater. But the harmonics are more forgiving hence why they can get away with 18gram rotor weight differences on balance when a piston is at 3-4grams allot of times :-/. Being NA on a stock ECU the motor should not exhibit any viewable changes.



However that housing was pulled from an S4 block I suspect reman on measuring of the hole locations I saw no variances I actually been puzzled on that for a few weeks but decided I really didn't care that much. I used a straight edge and a lazer level to measure them.

And your proof of that is what?... The bottom line, is dont mix housings.. the spark plug difference was enough of a difference to not only raise boost, but also bump compression .5 on the s5 and FD engines, but also allow a .7 change on the n/a engines.. Thats significant.. And people wonder why engines blow, and dont last..

There is allot more to thous numbers then just a trailing plug hole alignment in fact its virtually irrelivant. Hell you could even take the trailing plugs off and virtually see no loss in HP. We all know they are there to control the flame front from the elongated chambers. But fact is if they are actually different in thous housings and my lazer lied it wont matter a damn with this setup.

Its not even the trailing plug we are talking about here, its the leading plugs that have the different location between the different series of housings..

You really think that mazda would go through the process of changing housing tooling for no significant purpose? lol.. Thats right up there with, that big gouge doesnt matter, and 3mm seals are tougher.. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683785.gif

Trailing plug doesnt matter? Put some dyno time in a an engine past 6000 rpm and ask yourself why the newest MFR housings have not only 1, but 2 trailing plugs..

Well from the data I have collected and I said it does make a difference bu the amount is very minute of a motor similar to this one. Almost guaranteed under 3hp. I don't even want to start on the 3mm joke. The MFR housing could have many reasons we do not know. Perhaps fuel type? The significance in fuel in incredible hell why do I pay $17 a gallon for 101oc fuel for my race bikes?



I can guarantee you on my life the spark plug holes were in identical position on this motor and housings. So that still leaves the puzzel when and why and how much did Mazda change. they have done this before changed castings and not all the parts and people go off claiming there series changes and there not officially. The motor the "s5" housing came out of was a late model 88FC with S4 plug timing and S5 outer casting.

good stuff!