i think i spend about 8 hours, 2-3 to pull it apart, about 2 to clean, 2 more to setup the rotors, and it took 2 hours to stack the thing. obivoulsy new rotors, and or new rotor housings speeds things up cause you dont have to clean em. i'm also not in a hurry either, if i took a couple more hours its not important.



fast? slow? i'm just curious https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.gif

time to clearance and rebuild and engine is timeless... for some of us, is heaven..

takes me more time than that. i think i tear them down a lot quicker than 2 to 3 hours. however, it takes me what seems like a lifetime to get them cleaned to my satisfaction. i'm not sure how much time it takes me to measure and clearance and such, and it takes me about 3-4 hours to stack it and torque everything down.

I do a full car drive in and drive out rebuild in 1 full day of work. Process is 2 days but half gets done one day half gets done next day. Leaves room for one more half.



Remove tear down deliver parts for machine shop cleaning in a bath. Pick up next day assembly and put back in car.



Assuming no special work is done and spect parts are good.

yeah, i enjoy it and take my time, it just seems to take about that long https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.gif

I would spend a fair chunk of time more than that.



You know, measuring things shaft surface condition, bearing surface condition, shaft runout, shaft surfaces out of round (main and rotor), rotor bearing id's and out of round, main bearing id's/out of round, iron distortion, housing distortion, surface/resurface INCLUDING ridge removal after resurfacing, rotor groove wear, counterweight inspection, oil pump inspection, oil pump drive chain tension/replacement, verify OPR and shaft thermovalve function, retapping stud bosses ensuring proper torque, the list goes on further yet. Endplay is another big one not to be overlooked by any means.



It takes a little bit more time to operate things like a dial indicator and caliper than it does to use a tape measure.



Anyone can race to build an engine as fast as they can, how long it will last is another story entirely.

OMG https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683785.gif

https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/blush.gif I dont reuse 90% of that **** https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683664.gif



A good supply of tools air and shop space works wonders. Takes me sub 2hrs to pull a motor https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/bigok.gif

Feels like years here :(

hrm... it took me 2 hours to take apart. 6 months to slowly clean parts. 2 days to order all parts from Mazdaspeed. & I'm working up the courage to keep on going to stage X, which is to clean up the cast flashing to the ports (no actual changing of port shape). Port wastegate. Stage Y paint irons. Stage Z assemble...

Even with all new parts, I still spend in the neighbourhood of 16 hours, measuring, clearancing, and then assembling.. Building a motor is not a race, the parts are to expensive to chance on bad clearances. The rotary is a very forgiving engine when it comes to tolerances, it will run with everything whacked out beyond mazda spec, but, it wont last long, make the power it should, or pass an emissions sniffer if it isnt up to snuff..

Even the best builders in Japan take 2 days +, and for those guys its all they do every day , month after month, year after year.

Or maybe you should try measuring all the parts. I dont take anything forgranted, not even with new parts. I measure everything twice, and make sure its exactly to spec.

when i built my bridge it took me 5 days and only like 3 hours to assemble once everything was checked. rev to 10,000 and all is good. damn clutches don't seem to be lasting though

I figure that if nothing looks heinous when I pull it apart, then it survived the last hundred thousand or so miles just fine and there's no point in measuring.



I do measure the seals, but the bearings, or rotor housings? Nah. Clean it up, smack the rotor gear down with a mallet for insurance, load up the seals and throw it together. Never had one problem.



The gotcha is when you get new parts. New parts are untested parts. New parts are unverified dimensions parts. They need a thorough inspection, cleaning, and measurement before use.

Thats exsactly how long it should take to assemble one. 2 to 3 hours.





Nahh you dont buy a brand new oil pump and take it apart and inspect it. You dont buy a brand new car and ohm the tps if its good do you?



Irons should take you no more then 12minutes a side MAX. Grab your runing clearance off the new housings your cleand rotors 5 minutes. Check the new barings after pressed in for any faults on pressing and iner intergity takes 10minutes. Check rotor grooves and face 15-20 minues. End play 10-15minutes.



If it takes any exsperianced person longer then that then. A: they never done a rotary or B: Find a new job. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...R#>/violin.gif

Yes I do. You'd be amazed at how much dirt and debris comes pre-installed in new components. The tolerances may be off, as well. Cheap parts tend to not have very exacting tolerances, expensive parts tend to be handbuilt and more prone to human error. The bottom line is, if it is an unproven component, it is an unknown quantity unless you inspect and verify yourself.





No, but that is what the warranty period is for. Anything not built to spec will either fail within the warranty period, or that spec didn't really matter, since it did manage to last at least that long.



I haven't seen individual components (such as an oil pump) come with a warranty that covers collateral damage. They cover the oil pump only, and condolences for the $15,000 engine that you have to eat.

You need to purchas bettor parts then. Out of hundreds of motors I have yet to recive a bad or out of spec factory part or wiseco part. The key you need to know is the OE part is inspected befor they build it for sale. Things dont magicaly fall out of spec sorry.

So you'd think. Ask some of the dealer-types about the wonderful quality of MANA rebuilds. That is a replacement part at the OE level, so it should be good, right?



OEMs make very few components, it is mostly farmed out to outside suppliers. Many times, the parts sold over the counter are items that didn't pass spec for some reason, but are still deemed good enough for sale. After all, the design spec is to last at least until the end of the warranty. If something fails 2/3rds of the way through the warranty period, then a part only half as good should last the rest of the way.



These are the parts that you are buying. Would you trust them without knowing their story?

I can do anything any of you guys can do in 5 to 10 times the amount of time you can. so there.

heretic is right, but it's up to the integrity of the builder if he wishes to check it or if it's not worth the effort.

Remans are a sad story and are rebuild in another facitlity. Its the ongoing reputation of the part manufactoring you have to look at. When was the last time you orderd a new baring and it was out of spec? Hmm probably never!

In college and university they teach to check brand new parts, because parts are produced with a broad tolerance range, and it's up to the installer to spec and modify as needed/if needed.



What on earth should I tell them?

So that’s what you learned in school.



Some conspiracy theory you have there. Brilliant lets produce parts that are manufactured out of tolerance ranges and ignore the fact that well it’s also ILLEGAL. Brilliant philosophy you have there.

BMW recalled every 2001 M3 because the crank bearings were out of spec.







Surprisingly they are still in business and not all under arrest for selling illegal out of spec parts.





Maybe this is only the law in the backwoods of Florida? https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683561.gif

Ice,

We have had our disagreements before on another site. I really think you should mature a little and realize that maybe you don't know everthing. Some of these guys have built motors for a long time and are quite good. You seem to have a bit of an attitude that if you can't get a motor out and rebuild it in a day you suck. No offense but you sound like a child.



I thought this was a great post. It's neat to see how some people look at building engines. It takes me several weeks to clean and spec all the parts but I do it in my free time after I have spent time w/ the family.



It takes about 3 hours to finish off the keg start to finish. Granted I have only built 12 motors on my own. I may not be the fastest but it sure is fun.

Thats was the point. If that happens they have to do just that. By law!



rotaryinspired - negative look at it the other way around thats how I see it.

HUNDREDS of motors and not one out of spec part?

No wonder you have such loyal customers!

Conspiracy theory that I have?



You mean goverment approved and institutionalized "conspiracy theory", kid.



Is there anything else you'd like me to type up straight out of a government standard approved textbook that falls under the heading "rookie mistakes"? Or shouldn't you have these same textbooks that I have? Rotary mechanic, metal fabricator, electrical wiring, restoration master, mechanical & fluid engineer. That's an awful lot of credentials, and review, and homework, and term tests on the exact same material that I've had to learn. Did you just not read that chapter yet? That one about building engines?



I hate to say it, but you're posts sound like your credentials are straight out of a cereal box.



That or you're just not quite on the same chapter of the book as the rest of us.

thanks! you know, its not how long it SHOULD take, its how long does it take. i take my time and for the most part enjoy building, and it seems to take about 6 hours. add another 8-10 and its running in the car, can it be done in a weekend? yes. do i like doing it that fast? no, i dont like to rush.

patience is a virtue

Takes me forever between cleaning, re-cleaning, cleaning again, and measuring tolerances, and cleaning one more time.



Sure in theory new parts should be good, but sometimes they arent. The production lines for those new parts dont spec out every part, that would cost a fortune! They check one every so often. If one of those is bad they may check back to the point where bad ones started coming off the line. There is no guarantee that a bad part wont get off the line, but there is a pretty good chance your new part is good. I would prefer not to be the guy that builds with a bad part because I didnt take the extra 15 minutes to check and has to warranty the customers motor because of it. If BMW spent the extra few minutes to check they wouldnt have had to recall all those M3's regardless of the law, I am sure that cost them a few million $.

The same books also said evolution was a fact https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683785.gif



The fact is a motor should take around on avg 2 to 3 experienced hours to assembly without rushing who rushes a motor? If it takes you 2 days you suck period.



After years upon years of building with all new parts you begin to learn what you inspect and what you spec out every time. Your jabbering is nothing more then I read this somewhere and is without experience. What school teaches you is a joke to debate with. Because every time I have gone to college real world experience has taught me much more. School is to teach you the principles and theory’s behind stuff.



There’s not enough parts to make specing a lengthy process there’s jut not. We already posted how much you have to spec whoopty doo a dozen things and a straight edge. The math is elementary school how long should it take you to read 3 place holders and a decimal? This isn’t some geometry and calc stuff to design a runner and port. Its 3 digits + - math.



If you want to learn the tricks used to speed up the process without sacrificing a motor and knowing the spec already "key point" you can pm me about my setup and process. You will look something like https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...DIR#>/ohmy.gif https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/happy.gif



Look up Mickey Franklin hydroplane race boat team. There running 502 rat motors. They were 850 on avg hp all motor. They were all built by my dad as he was there head mech and builder. They never lost a race with his motors nor did anyone have a faster straight speed. He did lose one driver I guess that could be counted as a loss but we don’t like to think of losing someone in that way.

Ice,

Good thing you have more humility than last time we had a debate.



^sarcastic voice



I have noticed you are promoting a shop now. As a business owner myself let me help you on some advice. Sometimes coming out and saying I am the best and know all isn't the best image. It makes you sound like an 18yr old kid w/ an attitude.



Good luck.

google didnt turn anything up, theres a mickey franklin building CHRYSLERS, but sounds like a different guy...



anyways, my dad built radios, for his dads magazine in the 50's but it doesnt make me any faster with a rotary https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.gif

experience and background have more meaning to me then some guy sitting on his comp trying to tell me how to build a motor. I laugh. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683561.gif You know it can also mean you are awesome and confident in your work.



You don’t get to be the best sitting on your belly rolling around. You get there pushing the limits exceeding the known to be the best. Because if you never fail you will never succeed. I didn’t become ranked 40-25th on avg in the world in professional motorcross by sitting on my ass. You get there with confidence hard word dedication and talent. I don’t listen to a C rider to tell me how to ride to become bettor, you don’t listen to a new engine builder to become bettor. You watch the best in the world and practice that understand that live it and you will progress. To hell with what some douchbag on the net tries to tell you how to build a motor. rotaryinspired - You might not be striving to be the best in the world but I am. If your not striving to be the best then,,,, what are you doing?





Below is a local pic

[attachment=40902:attachment]

and first pro career arena.

[attachment=40903:attachment]

3rd place finish in that race.

were you jumping out of a airplane in that pic?

You can talk about being the best, but the best in the world at anything know a little about humility because they have failed and succeeded and know that failure comes w/ success.



If you want to start throwing past acheivements up I can show you alot about golf, as that is where I have made more money than anywhere, but it doesn't matter here. Just like your motocross doesn't matter about what we are talking about. Its just bragging rights. Good luck you have a lot to learn. Maybe not in motors, but in life.



And as for what I am doing? I am building my insurance agency, so when I am done my daughter can walk into a business making good money if she so desires. Not something I can do w/ golf. Motors are my way of getting away from things.



Back on topic. This has been fun.

Somebody check the age of this guy in his profile.



Nothing wrong with young people building engines, but do the math when they say they've been doing it for years upon years.



Congrats on pretending to have technician qualifications.



I'll let the colleges know that their flunkies are making out good on the internet as "pretend professionals".

In after the lock! Honestly the irony in this topic is thicker then the drip from a prostitutes ***** in vegas during the CES conferance.



It doesn't take a book lernt peoples to take a few and laugh at the comedy within.