I want to reuse my S4 stationaries for a N/A motor I'm building, and was wondering if it would really be worth it to have them treated. I'll be keeping the stock red-line and plan on 150-ish hp.





Thanks!

You will acheive lower frictional losses thru the use of REM polishing. Some shops offer a combo cryo-Rem treatment, but I have yet to see the benefits of cryo

I doubt that there will be much beyond stock stresses involved. The stock parts should do nicely.



Lynn E. Hanover

REM (i.e. Chemically-Accelerated Vibratory Surface Finishing) is definitley a proven process and I would really like to do that to a few things If I can afford it. I've read elswhere that cryo treatment of the side or oil seals(can't remember which) proved beneficial. I gues I'm just too concernd about longevity. Like you said Mr. Hanover... It's still basically within stock levels. In its fullblown glory, it could get up to 200 hp... Its just going to be one of those things that tug at me... Every time it redlines voices in my head will start chanting, *It's fatiguing!...It's fatiguing!...Ooh! Did you here that tooth chip?... Keep it up! One of these days you'll have a nice coffe grinder.* https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683664.gif These stinking S4 internals! Why did they have to be in such good condition?



Oh well. I guess what I really want/need is more experience.

I can allways sell them to offset some the cost of upgrades. lol...





Anyways, thanks for the input!

spend the money you were going to use for cryo treating on other things like New competition bearings with the deeper oil groove.



In my opinion cryo treating is Bull ****.

i'm pretty much inline with everyone else.



you dont really need to do anything. if you're still worried, you can upgrade to the 89-91 hardened gears, or the fd gears and larger thrust bearings, more oil pressure etc

Ive read about it greatly extending the lifetime of stock brake rotors in racing classes that require them. Your thoughts on this?

arent 13b renesis stationary gears easily available, have better designed, hardenned, and cheaper than the cryo treatment?

I hear the same about brake rotors...but generally I still lean toward the side of the guy who called bullshit, a deep freeze rearranging the molecular structure? Isn't that how some mastermind criminal got through some high end locks, by super freezing and braking them with an effortless strike afterword? For those that use that service, I hope the individual performing the process isn't in the bottle that day.

I haven't tried it myself. I for one would rather buy a higher quality brake rotor to begin with if I had the option of cryotreating made in taiwan rotors vs buying mazda oem from the dealer.



If I really needed extra margin to prevent warping of the brake rotors or excess wear. I would, use ducting, find a friendlier pad, or as a last resort heat treat the rotors and surface grind the surface 5 thou deep. Atleast for heat treatment I know I'm increasing the hardness of the surface. Where as cryotreating is still wishy washy.



I know that Heat treatment changes the mechanical properties of the metal since it depends heavily on the type of microstructure was produced during the phase transformations when the material was cast and then cooled. With heat treatments you are essentially rearranging the mircostructure to give you different ratios of austenites/martinsite etc.



The reason why I say cryo treating is wishy washy bull **** that cryo treating does not influence the microstructre of the metal as it can not recrystalize the grain structure at that temperature. You change the microstructure by controlling the alloy of the steel, and then you cool the metal at a set rate. You then reheat the metal and recool to recover the mircostructure you want.



If you look at and phase treatment of any metal it is described by a euctectoid reaction. For cryo treating it shows the same composition of metals on both sides of the equal sign. Meaning nothing happens when you cryotreat. THe only way cooling changes anything is when you control the heating of the sample and control the rate of cooling forcing the material to pass through different phase regions of the phase diagram again.



Nothing happens below room temperature...



That is my view on cryo treating. I for one can think of better ways of spending the money on different components that give you more gains such as competition deep groove bearings vs cryotreating gears. The 13BREW and rx8 motors, and the racing beat hardened stationary gears I'm sure are all heat treated to get an increase in hardness, not cryo cooled. They mean even be nitrided for even more hardness.