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Ok I’m not sure if this topic has already been written; just want to bring it up again,
ok this is just my theory, RE problems, Bad gas mileage Burns oil Low in power So i figured fix the problem b4 upgrading the engine and maybe you ill be happy with it These are all est. HP numbers; let me know what u think of if you got the same, if you did it b4 12A 105hp- stock 12A engine (4.5 psi) 5hp- remove fan 10hp- alt and main pulley changed 5hp- performance air filter 10hp- better exhaust 20hp- lighten rotors, e shaft and lap side housing 5hp- lighter seals and higher power ignition 160hp est. with the same psi, add a lighter flywheel and better clutch and this will be a excellent 12A or 13B now I was told don’t lighten the 12A rotors because you will never hit high rpm with it or only to be used at track, but who says that’s how I’m going to drive on the streets, when I want more rpm I want to know its there, the point of this engine is to eliminate the problems and get some more power, now If I have 55 more HP I don’t have to step on the gas so hard, (less burning gas, less oil burn and more power) again this is just a theory “my theory” anymore to add? |
Originally Posted by rx7_dren' date='Apr 20 2005, 08:23 AM
Bad gas mileage
Burns oil Low in power burns oil - not a rpoblem if you change your opil every 3k low power - of course its NA
Originally Posted by rx7_dren' date='Apr 20 2005, 08:23 AM
These are all est. HP numbers; let me know what u think of if you got the same, if you did it b4
12A 105hp- stock 12A engine (4.5 psi) 5hp- remove fan 10hp- alt and main pulley changed 5hp- performance air filter 10hp- better exhaust 20hp- lighten rotors, e shaft and lap side housing 5hp- lighter seals and higher power ignition pullies - <5hp, their man purpose is to slow the water pump so it not damaged with consitant high RPM use rotors - lighting the rotors and e-shaft will not net you more power, it will just rev margianly quicker and possibly rev higher lighter seals - ??? I dont even know how think this would help high power ignition - 5hp may be faciful on a NA engine but it will give you better gas milage
Originally Posted by rx7_dren' date='Apr 20 2005, 08:23 AM
160hp est. with the same psi, add a lighter flywheel and better clutch and this will be a excellent 12A or 13B
now I was told don’t lighten the 12A rotors because you will never hit high rpm with it or only to be used at track, but who says that’s how I’m going to drive on the streets, when I want more rpm I want to know its there, the point of this engine is to eliminate the problems and get some more power, now If I have 55 more HP I don’t have to step on the gas so hard, (less burning gas, less oil burn and more power) again this is just a theory “my theory” anymore to add? |
so ur telling me its a waste of time? im not looking for power.........most of these power is what i got of reading sites, 1 site clamed 22hp using the renisis rotors in a 13B, and another says 5hp for an eshaft, some says 10hp for main and alt pully, on top of all that i wanted to put an electrict water pump wouldent that help?
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Noone has seen any consistent gains from renesis rotors in a 13b to my knowledge. And lightening everything doesnt make hp, it makes the engien rev faster.
All your hp estimates are grossly inflated. |
Simple answer to a complicated issue: HP GAINS ARE NOT ADDITIVE!
Every time you optimize one component, it is a dominoe effect to keep going to reap the benefits of the previous mod. |
Actually, lightening rotors, etc does add power. Less of the force of combustion goes to accelerating the rotating assembly, and therefore more of it goes to accelerating the wheels.
You're on the right track Dren. The way to make an engine more efficient (therefore use less gas) is to optimize the engine's components, and the vehicle as a system. The major killer to RX fuel efficiency is the low compression and the peripheral exhaust port. If you could find high compression 12a rotors, that would help your mileage a tonne. If you lighten the rest of the car up, improve the aerodynamics, put on low rolling resistance tires, it would help too. |
Lighten Rotors and balance =$1200 (conservative)
90%(my number) of Rotary owners cringe and go into shock when confronted with the cost of overhaul software and hardware, let alone an additional $1200 for L&B |
[quote name='Feds' date='Apr 20 2005, 04:43 PM']Actually, lightening rotors, etc does add power. Less of the force of combustion goes to accelerating the rotating assembly, and therefore more of it goes to accelerating the wheels.
You're on the right track Dren. The way to make an engine more efficient (therefore use less gas) is to optimize the engine's components, and the vehicle as a system. The major killer to RX fuel efficiency is the low compression and the peripheral exhaust port. If you could find high compression 12a rotors, that would help your mileage a tonne. If you lighten the rest of the car up, improve the aerodynamics, put on low rolling resistance tires, it would help too. [snapback]702568[/snapback] [/quote] Raising the compression compromises the combustion chamber shape even more that the already poor shape it is at the stock compression ratios. Gains from the higher compression are likely to be offset by the less efficient combustion. Why do you think the renesis stuck to a 10:1 in a world of 11.5:1 high performance motors? And I agree that ligntening parts makes power in theory, but in reality, its not going to be measurable unless you do a significant change. You would notice it in lower gears, but in the form of the engine revving faster, not more peak hp. The gains from light flywheels are rarely more than a couple of hp at the wheels. You could easily have that much variance from slightly different barometric conditions. If you want a noticable effect from lightening things, taking half a pound off the rotors isnt goign to do **** compared to taking a few lbs off the wheels, which also have a much much higher moment of inertia because of the significantly larger diameter diameter. To rx7dren: youre focusing in so closely on the minute details youre missing the bigger picture. The major inefficiencies of the stock system are all in the peripherals of the engine. The block really is not bad at all from an efficiency standpoint, and the improvements that can realisticaly be made are minimal. |
The money to balance is well spent, imo, and I agree, only a collective effort with all the worthwhile mods will allow you to reap the benifits. It would seem that ppl do three or four mods and think of the hp gains as compounding interest.
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spend like 3 grand to get a little bit better mileage?
I dont get it. |
[quote name='rx7_dren' date='Apr 20 2005, 01:49 PM']so ur telling me its a waste of time? im not looking for power.........most of these power is what i got of reading sites, 1 site clamed 22hp using the renisis rotors in a 13B, and another says 5hp for an eshaft, some says 10hp for main and alt pully, on top of all that i wanted to put an electrict water pump wouldent that help?
[snapback]702544[/snapback] [/quote] I'm saying the modifications you are thinking about are not the ones you should be focusing on to meet your goals. The sites you read are flat out lying. Its the internet, there arn't laws governing what is fair play, if the want to over estimate their numbers or straight out guess they are free to do so, its up to a consumer who knows what their buying to cut through the BS. Almost all of the mods you are thinking about are things that would onlt be done on a full race car. Why? because on any other car there are simplier, less expensive things that will satisfy your yearnings to be done. An electric waterpump does not free that much power, near nothing. What they are good for is on race motors that need to cool down between passes, when a more consistant flow is desired or when their isnt room for the pullies and such. What you want to look at for better gas milage and slightly more power is a good exhaust (headers back if you dont need to meet emissions), a decent airfilter (K&N is always good)and possibly a CDI box just for the sake of gas milage. You dont need wild or expensive modifications to get what you want. Just look around what a lot of other people do, there is generaly a reason why the path for upgrading goes, intake, exhaust, control of fuel. ~Zach K |
thanks zack K sounds good, but in like 3 months ill do some stuff to my engine it ill be a 13B, im going to do it just for fun, because ill have the money to waste hopefully, its going to be dropped into a 1st gen, a **** load of stuff is going to be lighten on the car to, wheels especially and more ill see what i can accomplish, i know you guys thinks a waste of time but ill see what happens, and if i want more power everything is already done to it just add a turbo
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ive played with this a bit on my gsl-se,
old engine combo: stock s4 na block aluminum flywheel stock -se ecu rb long headers this got 22-24mpg in mixed driving, made great power until the stock ecu/fuel system ran out of gas around 4500rpms new engine combo: stock -se block 9.7 rotors 89na flywheel (with the lighter rotors, and heavier flywheel the rotating mass didnt change much, its a little heavier, but not much) rb short headers and a main cat same ecu, fuel, ignition this is getting 20-22mpg in mixed driving, its responsive down low, but i think i'm down 10-15hp, theres now enough fuel to see 8000rpm in any gear. i think if i wanted to maximise mpg, i go with larger ports, a good exhaust, and excellent ignition. the compression didnt do anything for me..... then again 9.4 to 9.7 isnt much difference |
[quote name='j9fd3s' date='Apr 20 2005, 09:02 PM']ive played with this a bit on my gsl-se,
old engine combo: stock s4 na block aluminum flywheel stock -se ecu rb long headers this got 22-24mpg in mixed driving, made great power until the stock ecu/fuel system ran out of gas around 4500rpms new engine combo: stock -se block 9.7 rotors 89na flywheel (with the lighter rotors, and heavier flywheel the rotating mass didnt change much, its a little heavier, but not much) rb short headers and a main cat same ecu, fuel, ignition this is getting 20-22mpg in mixed driving, its responsive down low, but i think i'm down 10-15hp, theres now enough fuel to see 8000rpm in any gear. i think if i wanted to maximise mpg, i go with larger ports, a good exhaust, and excellent ignition. the compression didnt do anything for me..... then again 9.4 to 9.7 isnt much difference [snapback]702830[/snapback] [/quote] cool cool anymore stories like this? then some rx7 guys can have a efficent rotary without selling cuz of high gas prices https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...R#>/violin.gif, i still think adding a air to fuel mixture guage ill help a bit too |
People bitch way to much about gas prices. oooo big deal a 5 cent raise, we are still paying under $3 a gallon. In Europe it is easily $8 a gallon. Which is still fairly cheap when compared with other liquids per gallon.
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[quote name='rx7_dren' date='Apr 20 2005, 06:23 AM'],
5hp- remove fan 10hp- alt and main pulley changed 5hp- performance air filter 10hp- better exhaust 20hp- lighten rotors, e shaft and lap side housing 5hp- lighter seals and higher power ignition [snapback]702401[/snapback] [/quote] Those HP gains are very similiar to the amount of HP the stickers will add you find on many honda rice cars. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png |
[quote name='rx7_dren' date='Apr 21 2005, 01:14 PM']cool cool anymore stories like this? then some rx7 guys can have a efficent rotary without selling cuz of high gas prices https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...R#>/violin.gif, i still think adding a air to fuel mixture guage ill help a bit too
[snapback]702953[/snapback] [/quote] 90 GTU, stock reman engine, stock fuel injection, cold air intake, pulleys, e-fan, and full exhaust, and I was seeing 29 mpg on the highway, 24-26 mixed driving. |
[quote name='rx7_dren' date='Apr 21 2005, 09:14 AM']cool cool anymore stories like this? then some rx7 guys can have a efficent rotary without selling cuz of high gas prices https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...R#>/violin.gif, i still think adding a air to fuel mixture guage ill help a bit too
[snapback]702953[/snapback] [/quote] a buddy of mine had a full bridge port 13b with a holley dual exhaust and a gsl-se 5th gear, it would get 26mpg on the freeway.... |
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