I can't seem to get the e-shaft out of the front housing for the life of me. I've tried to do it how the FSM says, by taking off the int. housing and then pulling it off; but I can't get the damn int. housing around it either. Is the shaft supposed to just slide out of the front housing? How about those 6x 12mm bolts holding on the bearing spacers? I removed them, but nothing new. Anyone have any tricks?

a picture

is this motor siezed by a chance?

kinda confused if you have this engine apart... once you have rear plate, rear housing, and rotor out then you are to lift the eshaft up a bit and then rock the inter. housing up and over.... i'm sure that's what you are reading in the fsm but your info is kinda hazy

No, it was turning, then it decided to stop turning at a certain point.

That's the thing, I can't lift the e-shaft at all. It wont move in/out, nor round/round

is the engine apart!?

Obviously, how else would I expect to get it out https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png

haha ok i jsut had to make sure you weren't another dumbass noob, well you need to lift the eshaft and the inter. plate up at same time, then rock it. it really shouldn't be that hard

No, let me tell you... this is definately a bitch. At first I could turn the shaft about 40deg. rotating. Then I tried to torque it further and possibly break it loose and that's where it stayed. Now I can somewhat get an angle at the int. housing, but it just won't come over the shaft without the shaft moving (out, not rotating). Say this was a new motor, shouldn't I be able to simply pull the e-shaft out providing that the int. housing was removed? Even if I do get the int. housing removed, I really don't think the shaft is going to come out. What to do?

Here's where I'm at. I can tilt the int. housing to the right, but nowhere near where it needs to be to come out.

Hit the intermediate housing with a mallet on the corners of it to pry it loose. Did you perchance warp the rotor housing from overheating? The dowel pins may be stuck preventing the engine from coming apart easily.



B

Dowel pins are out, motor had stuck apex seals, and I can freely spin the int. housing if I so desire. I can also see in between the rotor housing and the front housing, so I know those aren't stuck together also. I tried hitting the flywheel side of the shaft and also the pulley side with a mallet and it will only move maybe 1/16" - and that is only if I remove the six bolts holding on the gold plate (in first pic)

I have an idea here --



That gold plate you are referring to is called a thrust plate. It's a plate that separates the pair of needle bearings that swing over either side of the plate where the endplay spacer is (it's in the middle between the bearings and the centre of the thrust plate. Remove the 6 bolts, remove the thrust plate, needle bearing and thrust washer, then see if you can remove the front gear.



Once you do, see if the eccentric shaft moves up and down with respect to the front rotor and its bearing. If it's seized from an oil failure, the front bearing on the rotor may've locked up. Another possibility, if you can't get the gear off, is the bearing on the front gear may've seized to the crankshaft as well.



Keep plugging away at it.



B

That's gotta be it. I've removed the thrust plate and the corresponding bearings and only then can I get a slight amount of movement (1/16") I'll try soaking it in some WD40 and see if that helps. What kind of movement should I be expecting? Should I be able to simply slide off the front housing like I did with the rear, or only enough movement to get the int. housing off the e-shaft?

Wacky. Wonder if you spun a bearing. Oil starvation or mega-high rpm's?



I forgot to add one note -- if the gear is stuck to the crank shaft via a "welded" bearing, then it'll prevent you from doing anything. You won't be able to separate the intermediate housing off.



B

in that first pic of yours, you have the spacer on the eshaft, that must be stuck on there jammed thats why the eshaft is nto sliding out fo the front gear. u might have the spacer stuck on the shaft try to take off that spacer, if it deosnt come out then u just spun it. which means the only easy wasy to take it of is grab it with somethign such as robogrips and tryign to twist it or just grabbign the eshaft from the other side of the engine and bang it toward yourself a few times till that spacer slides out.

Did you remove all the dowel pins? it's easy to remove the upper ones but the lower ones are a bit harder and you need a special tool. (a pulley with a threaded end) If all the dowel pins are removed(4 of them) then just tap on the side housing and the center plate will come apart with the e-shaft. If it doesn't happen, then you have a bearing seized like BDC stated.

I've mushroomed the front ends of two E shafts that had welded bearings. They can be seperated, but it takes an act of congress if you've never done it before.

Ok, so in the first picture the six bolts are holding on the thrust plate to the "gear" correct? I can get the thrust plate off and all respective bearings within, but that "gear" behind the thrust plate (what the thrust plate bolts into) won't move at all. Not round and round, not in and out. It's got two little "pins" holding it from rotating that you can somewhat see in the first pic (small holes in thrust plate). It looks like I need to get this off before the e-shaft will go anywhere. I'll try and get a better picture of it.

Yep. Those bolts on the front gear hold the thrust plate, the rear (of the two) thrust needle (Torrington) bearings, the thrust washer (It's a flat-style washer minus the bevelling on the inside), and the front stationary gear.



The gear won't move around and around by the way; you'll see that it bolts on in only one position via an indexing pin that's cast on the front iron housing. Both gears are made like this; the gears are called 'stationary gears' and they remain stationary with respect to the irons. There's a gear on the front sides of each rotor that corresponds with these stationary gears; as the rotor rotates in its fashion, it's kept in its elliptical rotation perfectly and exactly by the action of these gears.



If you can, try using a smaller pry bar on the underside of the gear to see if it moves or not. Do not use alot of force and only use a prybar up against the bottom of the front iron housing and not using a gasket surface, etc as leverage.



I suspect the front stationary gear bearing is seized to the eccentric shaft; it's either spun from over-revving (less likely) or 'bonded' itself to the shaft from oil starvation (more likely) although I haven't seen any big signs of oil burning (varnish), etc. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683664.gif



B

This reminds me of a webpage I was going to make yet never did (yet). During one of my engine builds, I took a bunch of pictures of all of the front cover components together, separately, and then during installation when building the front cover.



The link is -- http://bdc.cyberosity.com/pictures/1...CoverAssembly/

Perhaps someone with motivation and web skills could build a technical page utilizing these pictures to clear up some confusion and help teach a few people how all of this mess goes together, how the torque specs are, etc. etc.



Anyways, here's a couple of pictures showing what we're talking about:



http://bdc.cyberosity.com/pictures/1...sassembled.Jpg



This picture shows the front cover and front iron completely disassembled yet the bolts holding the front gear are still on. In the middle of the gear, there's a white ring -- this white ring is the bearing that's pressed into the gear. The gear and its bearing remain stationary while the crankshaft (centre of the bearing) rotates in and rides inside of that bearing via a bearing race.



http://bdc.cyberosity.com/pictures/A...eAssembly3.Jpg



Here's a picture of the front stationary gear with the bearing inside of it bolted to the front iron housing from the housing



http://bdc.cyberosity.com/pictures/A.../EShaft_TB.Jpg



The e-shaft has four bearing races -> the furthest one on the left is what rotates inside of the front gear bearing.



This clearing some stuff up, hopefully? If that crankshaft bearing race seizes to the front gear bearing, then the engine from the centre iron to the front iron won't separate -> you won't be able to pull the gear off because the rear rotor bearing race on the crankshaft, that's now sticking out on the opposite end of the centre iron housing, will try and pull the housings together. Conversely, you won't be able to lift the crankshaft up from the centre iron because it'll be trying to pull the gear along with it backwards, which won't happen.



B

in that first pic of yours, you have the spacer on the eshaft, that must be stuck on there jammed thats why the eshaft is nto sliding out fo the front gear. u might have the spacer stuck on the shaft try to take off that spacer, if it deosnt come out then u just spun it. which means the only easy wasy to take it of is grab it with somethign such as robogrips and tryign to twist it or just grabbign the eshaft from the other side of the engine and bang it toward yourself a few times till that spacer slides out.



in that first pic of yours, you have the spacer on the eshaft, that must be stuck on there jammed thats why the eshaft is nto sliding out fo the front gear. u might have the spacer stuck on the shaft try to take off that spacer, if it deosnt come out then u just spun it. which means the only easy wasy to take it of is grab it with somethign such as robogrips and tryign to twist it or just grabbign the eshaft from the other side of the engine and bang it toward yourself a few times till that spacer slides out.



in that first pic of yours, you have the spacer on the eshaft, that must be stuck on there jammed thats why the eshaft is nto sliding out fo the front gear. u might have the spacer stuck on the shaft try to take off that spacer, if it deosnt come out then u just spun it. which means the only easy wasy to take it of is grab it with somethign such as robogrips and tryign to twist it or just grabbign the eshaft from the other side of the engine and bang it toward yourself a few times till that spacer slides out.

By "spacer" I assume you're meaning thrust plate as refered to previously. I did remove that, it is just the stationary gear has seized onto the front gear bearing that will not move/slide anywhere allowing me to pull the shaft out.

Well, crap. Now what do I do? BTW, I have no idea what made this engine seize (oil/high rpm)... it was bad before I got it. I'm just taking it apart for fun (and frustration)

its called the spacer not the thrust plate, look in the manual for clarification, i am willign to bet thats it. but if you did take it off then it coudl be as u say, the gear bearign might be seized which i doubt.





here is a pic of the spacer

I have no idea how you could get that thing off.



B

I can't really tell the size of the one in your pic, but if it fits perfectly onto the front cover side of the e-shaft behind the thrust plate and the needle bearing, then I have removed it.



Like this one:

there is a letter on it, and in my pic there is an apex seal right next to it.

it kinda falls inside those pieces that are shown in your diagram, needle bearing etc.