Do the 13brew have any issues with oil delivered being insufficient in any way?



Like the front bearing and associated parts, has there ever been an issue with this surface wearing because of lack of oil or premature wear because of insufficient oil flow?



Would the oil mods that an engine builder does on a 13brew be good mainly for cooling purposes, and not solely for bringing the engines oil needs up to par?



I have never heard of any problems with the stock oiling system being able to supply oil even under very modified loads and higher than stock stresses.



I am wondering if the oil mods preformed on these engines are really necessary or are just a good precautionary measure to do because of better lubrication under higher loading?



thanks

the oiling system kicks ass, but a lot of the engine cooling is also done threw the oil. Ie. the Rotors are exclusivly cooled by the oil. For this reason it's a good idea to upgrade oil coolers and put the 200cc carb jets in the two e-shaft oil squirters used to spray oil on the rotors. Most people pay a lot of $ to try and get the stock oil pressure that a FD has. FC's run a little lower oil pressure, so it's a good idea to upgrade to the FD oil prssure regulator on the bottom of the rear plate as well..

when you upgrade a FC Oil pressure regulator to an FD one do you have to shim the oil pressure control valve on the front cover? and if so how is that done? thanks

Not sure if you have to, since I don't mess with FC's much, but you can shim it with washers from a 10mm bolt by inserting them between the spring and the cap you remove..

Does anyone know what the front oil pressure relief velve is set to on either a FC or a FD?

This oil cooling issues is a good topic



you can shime up the oil regulators with a washer ot two to increase oil pressure. But for daily drive NA 2nd gen it can lead to higher oil consumption and a smokery cars once and a while.



the great think about the rotary is direct race technology.

thats right DRY SUMP SYSTEM

go to Mazdaspeed website hunt around for it . It think its about $3000 for the system and you can pretty much leave you worries about the lubrication behind you. Talk to Tim about it but unless you plan on spending big money racing like $2500 to 10,000 a weekend racing it might not be worth it.



oh yea go to Mazdatrix take a look at thier different gear bearing types to fit you application.

AS far as you Pressure regulator question goes

i can not pull the num,ber from the top of my head so just go to

iluvmy7.com and pull the numbers for the factory manual. I do know that the front plunger is lower then the rear.

I think you have that backwards, the front is higher than the rear. I'm wondering what the front is set to?

So is it a consensus that the real reason that the oil passageways are carved out and enlarged, is simply for better cooling by means of more flow through the system?



I have a engine up at pineapple right now and am wondering whether or not I should go with the full oil upgrades with loop line, or just with the standard upgrades?



Some of the things they offer seem exclusively for better surface oiling and not so much for cooling purposes i.e. Extra teardrop oiling passageways in the Eshaft.



Any opinions on any upgraded oiling mods would be great!

Which ones do you guys feel are necessary or very beneficial, and which things are not so important or could be omitted because of unimportance?



http://www.pineappleracing.com/PricelistSvcs.html



Thanks!

What is the "Loop Line" option that is mentioned on the Pineapple Racing website? I have never seen that before.

Well I was talking to Joel up at pineapple, and he seemed to think that the bearing surfaces could use more than the standard oiling.



He said there are a lot of engines that come in with bad bearings and that there oiling mods cure those problems.



Do you guys feel that the bearings in the REWs could use more oil flow in this area, or are they OK from what you guys have seen?



Any personal experiences with this kind of wear?



Thanks

I'd like to know what their oiling mods are.



This is a subject that I've just recently been paying alot more attention to. On the last engine I built (3 days ago; S5 13BT 4-port), I modified four places on the front cover's machined oil galleys, I replaced the rotor and gear bearings with new ones, I changed the oil pressure regulator to an 80/85psi unit, and I also use Weber 2mm air corrector jets in-place of the ball 'n spring units in the eccentric shaft. Only time will tell if it all works but I suspect it'll work alright. Idle oil pressure is about 25 to 30psi and 2500rpm+ oil pressure is around 75 to 80psi. Not too bad.



Anybody else have any info on the 105/110psi factory race oil pressure regulator that's on the Mazdatrix website? I'd like to build an engine that can rev past factory redline and still sustain oil pressure and good bearing lubrication.



B

I think you have that backwards, the front is higher than the rear. I'm wondering what the front is set to? [/quote]

Yeh I believe the front is set to around 150 to 170psi.

The factory manual got that info though.

I think you have that backwards, the front is higher than the rear. I'm wondering what the front is set to? [/quote]

Yeh I believe the front is set to around 150 to 170psi.

The factory manual got that info though. [/quote]

Whoa! Crispeed has crossed over from the dark side.. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/bigok.gif welcome

Thanks for the answer.



This isn't the dark side, this is the good side. Less BS over here.

Ie. Crossed over FROM the dark side..



https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/boink.gif

What I'd like to know is how many washers to add. I'd guess three or four M5 flat washers off the top of my head.



B

Normaly you would add between 1/16th to 3/16th of an inch total in shims.

Most of the times each 1/16th is good for an additional 5psi over operational pressures. The real trick is to shim the rear regulator so that the valve is position at midway in the oil return/release passage/hole when it's fully depressed in it's opened position.

Personaly I would run the 105/115psi regulator with the multi window REW type gears and bearings.

Most bearing related failure if everything else checks out ok is due to wrong tolerances during assembly.

Believe it or not but I've been on here for a very long time but I forgot my password and everytime I tried to recover it would never work as though some evil power from the dark side was stopping it from working.!https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png

Normaly you would add between 1/16th to 3/16th of an inch total in shims.

Most of the times each 1/16th is good for an additional 5psi over operational pressures. The real trick is to shim the rear regulator so that the valve is position at midway in the oil return/release passage/hole when it's fully depressed in it's opened position.

Personaly I would run the 105/115psi regulator with the multi window REW type gears and bearings.

Most bearing related failure if everything else checks out ok is due to wrong tolerances during assembly. [/quote]

I didn't think the FD gears fit or were useful. After looking at the oil galleys on them, unless I'm mistaken, they don't match up to the galleys on the FC front and rear irons. Am I off on this?



B

Ie. Crossed over FROM the dark side..



https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/boink.gif [/quote]

I'm not tarded, just slow... I swear! https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683664.gif



sorry about that.

Ie. Crossed over FROM the dark side..



https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/boink.gif [/quote]

I'm not tarded, just slow... I swear! https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683664.gif



sorry about that. [/quote]

https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/bigok.gif

we got a chance to see some loop lines last weekend, and what i looks like it does is take some high pressure oil from the rear bearing and plumb it directly into the front bearing. so instead of the front bearing being the last to get oiled, its the first along with the rear bearing



mike

Can this mod be easily done? Do you have pictures? Thanks.

Can this mod be easily done? Do you have pictures? Thanks. [/quote]

it didnt look that hard, no pics sorry



mike

Hrm, I have noticed more wear on front bearings than rear ones. I always attributed it to the belts pulling up on the e-shaft to run accessories, but slightly low oil pressure to the bearing would compound this wear a lot... I did spin a front bearing boosting 1.7 with my T70 as well, basically it came apart and all the rotor tips made contact with the rotor housing killed the e-shaft, front stationary gear, and oil pump... Lot’s of metal... looked like I'd struck gold when I popped off the oil pan...



Pic's of this mod please.. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png

basically theres an an line coming from the oil filter and going to a the front steel, i guess they drill a new passage

need pic's of the location to drill and I'm all over it...



wonder if this will work on the 20B as wel.. hrmm.. got's 2 more bearings in there to lube up...

the engine we saw was a 13g so it had one line for each bearing coming off the dry sump



mike

im sure that you are familiar with the 13b dragon, if I had a pic of a front plate I would show it better, but this will work.



It is under the accessories plate right around the area of that big red dot.



I believe they bore out a channel that is covered by a aluminum hydraulically placed small round plate in that area.



To get the oil there they take a piece of .75 aluminum plate and stack it inbetween the oil filter and block with a extra port in it for the AN line to the newly bored front port.

I bet they're removing the plug in the oil galley that's already machined in the front iron housing, installing an A/N adaptor fitting, then running a -4 or larger oil line straight there. If you study it (the front iron housing) closely, you'll see that it's 90 degrees perpendicular 'south' to the oil galley that's drilled from the top down where the factory turbo oil line's banjo bolt resides. Take a peek at it.



This is a subject that I've been diving into heavily lately. One idea I've got is to bypass the upper tubular dowel pin(s) oil galley all together, fill in the rear iron housing at the bottom depth of the back dowel pin, use no dowel pin o-rings, and run two lines from the oil filter pedestal around the block to both the turbocharger and the front gear bearing. From what I understand, the oil in that upper dowel pin oil galley gets VERY hot, heat soaks the dowel pins, the rotor housings, the coolant jackets in the immediate vicinity, and the intake charge at about ~40BTDC during compression. In theory, by bypassing it all together, you're helping to reduce oil temperatures, coolant temperatures, as well as charge temperatures. It will also theoretically lubricate the front gear bearing more adequately and evenly with respect to its rear gear bearing counterpart (where the oil temperatures are theoretically the same instead of the front bearing being a measured degrees hotter). It's worth a try definitely. I'll be doing this on mine when I tear into it.



B

While looking for another thread this one came up so I thought I would get a update from anybody that has done this, and see how its working for you.



You are right in all your assumptions BDC. Have you been working on any other oil mods than the ones that have been discussed?

Nope, but I have been studying this one fairly intently. I've got my own engine apart and will probably do it to that one. From what I understand, m ostly from the help of Lynn Hanover, the plug that's pressed in the oil gallery needs to be drilled out (engine has to be apart; don't try this with an engine together and running https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...DIR ) and then tapped for a -10AN fitting/adaptor. I'mn not sure if this is a good size or not as it seems pretty large to me. I was initially thinking -6 but I trust Lynn's judgment. In any case, the point to draw it from would be from the oil filter area. I'm using a Racing Beat oil filter stand block that has two outlets for oil pressure and oil temperature. I'm using one of them for oil temp but not the other as it's plugged. I will probably use that if I can find an adaptor for it.



I'm going to try and put this together within the next few days. Hopefully, my camera will magically start working again or I can use another one to take some pictures of how it's done.



B

pineapple uses a 1/4 to -6 for the loop line fitting on the block.

That's what I needed to know. Thank you. I'm going to build one today for mine... we'll see what happens.



B

I purchased the necessary hardware today to make this loop line modification:



- 1/4" NPT to -6AN adaptor for the front iron housing

- 3/8" NPT to -6AN adaptor for my Racing Beat oil pressure/oil temperature block

(running a 3/8" 3-way block tee from the RB block for the oil temperature sending unit and the adaptor for the loop line)

- 3 feet of -6AN line



All I need to do now is drill out the plug and tap the front iron housing's oil gallery for 1/4" NPT thread and get the proper length hose constructed. I'll post pictures once I'm done.



B

here are some better pics for those that wish to do this

next

last

And just as a side note, this mod creates a conflict with the accessory plate for the PS and AC. It can be overcome by cutting a slot for a 90deg fitting into the plate. It should fit properly with no washers under the compressor or maybe 1 or 2 if not tapped all the way in on the block. And don’t start with that throw out the AC ****! I live in Oregon its usually cold and wet here 346 days of the year and I still want my AC on those rare warm days.