Hello guys, this is my first post here. I know quite a bit about V8's and I know how quickly the $ can add up in a project that's not properly managed. Most people will drop about 1000$ per 100hp in a V8, paying for name brands, shiny this, chrome that, AN fittings and braided lines and platinum plugs with 5 tips on them, when I know I could build one for 250$ per 100hp. It just wouldn't look as pretty.

-BUT..I have no experience building rotaries. I'm looking for 300HP. No more. and I don't care about name brands. (I always liked using parts from GM Performance for my engines. They spent millions of $'s and thousand of hour developing it - 95% of the time OEM works just fine.)



This is just an excercise for me. I have been building custom cars for years and have always been intrigued by the power/weight ratio of the rotary, as well as the insane rpm. 300 Hp in a VW swap, from what I am reading should be as reliable as the sun coming up and fast as a raped ape.



Can you guys post some set-ups and prices (rough estimates). Will a N/A stocker with porting work? but is that cheaper than a single turbo with minor upgrades and no porting? 300 should be an easy number to hit, but which is the most economical? Obviously a non-turbo is more reliable, but custom port work is expensive, right? I'm not looking to do any custom work myself (i'm done with that) I let the experts do it.

I want to have this car done on the road by August. I would like to buy the engine done, or mostly done. thanks.

oh- application: mostly just 'spirited' street driving, and high way use. No drag racing. No track days. Just a flat torque and power curve up high. low end is not important to me. I enjoy high speed racing as opposed to stop light stuff. I'd prefer mid/top end power.

Not super sure on the costs related, but I can bet that 300hp N/A isn't the way you want to go because the porting required to get there is race-porting. You'll get no torque, wicked horsepower if you rev really high, and then your motor will last for weeks...maybe. Get a TII. The exhaust from a rotary has so much energy it's begging to be used. N/A will just dump all that power uselessly.

a 2 rotor with more then 200rwhp n/a is hard to do. VERY hard to do

Bnr turbo builds stock hybrids for our car perfect for what your looking for if you have a tII

I don't know about VERY hard, but certainly a J-port or P-Port is required.

your transmission choice, your choice of gear spacing and final drive ratio will be important with a very extreme ported motor. my p-port makes pretty good power, but the car would be much faster with a 4.77 rear end and a close ratio dogbox.

Are you thinking 300 at the wheel or the flywheel?

200whp is not that hard to do at all. i have built 2 engines now one was for ower EP rx7 and the other is a freinds EP rx7. both run on 87 octain fuel both are street ported 6 port motors, one is carbed with webber 45mm the other is fuel injected with a stock s5 intake with a throttle body mod using motech managment. the fuely ran 210 on the rollers at the wheels max rpm was 9k on a mild street port. the carb motor is around 220whp on a slightly more agressive port reving to 9500 rpm. this one has ceramic 2mm seals . both motors make 160 toqure. again these are street port 6 port motors both have lasted a full season with oil changes and -10 plugs wich are changed regularly.

I was thinking 300 at the flywheel. Of course RWHp/torque is inconsequential as that can be changed with gearing, etc. as mentioned before.



I found a JDM (Japanese Domestic Market) 13B RE on Ebay for 1350$ ! This was a factory twin sequential turbo, rated at 265 Hp. Is that a pretty easy start? Emissions doesn't matter to me.



Do I really need an aftermarket ECU to hit 300Hp? The Motec's I've worked with are NOT cheap.



Basically this is what I'm asking:



What is a decent, but not overpriced:

Intake?

Exhaust Manifold?

Injectors?

Ingnition (I heard you can use the Mallory MSD 6a, right? not a bad choice)

AFM? (if needed)

ECU (if needed)

Plugs? (i don't think anything over 7 psi is needed for 300Hp, right? slightly warmer than stock?)



I have a great exhaust guy, and it is a custom install so no info needed on that.



It will not be a race engine, it will never see a DYNO. The most I will do is put in some race fuel when I go to car shows because I like the smell.





Also on a side note: Do any Mazda 5-speeds bolt up and handle 300Hp, or do I have to adapt a stronger tranny?



Thanks for the info so far!

at 300 hpish, there are 2 ways to do it.



you can take a factory turbo engine, like the REW, buy an ECU, and maybe a single turbo. depending on the turbo, 300hp is pretty easy, stock REW turbos need 15ish psi, a 60-1 to4 should be more like 10. engine can be stock, and as long as its tuned ok, will be fine for years.



NON turbo, you need to do a pretty radical port, either a big bridge or peripheral. its like putting a giant cam into the thing, so it can be grumpy. power will be in the 5000-9000+ range, depending on porting, and intake and exhaust tuning. you need aftermarket or custom intake manifold. different ecu or a carb. exhaust must be really free flowing, and this is hard to keep quiet.



numnber 2 sounds more like what you're looking for, it is more involved, there is a time proven road race type setup, but its LOUD



plan C might be to get an REW core, pull the turbo off and run it NA, be 180ish hp, be fun in a light car

awesome. Actually plan 1 sounds good to me. I can pick up a core with all the goods for 1000$ ?

A bigger turbo (rebuilt) for maybe 300$?

And which is a good ECU for this system?



as much as I love the Rotary sound, I made a promise to myself not to build any more loud cars! The cool thing about a quiet car is when you beat someone, you can say

"what's wrong with you car, man? Mines all stock."



And if you lose, "No problem, mines all stock."



...hard to do when you have the sound of Thor's Hammer coming from under your hood.

turbo + the racing beat revII presilencer = quiet...



i think $1000 would find you a good core, bigger turbo would prolly be more, but it depends on your hookups...



as far as ecu's go, just about anything CAN be made to work, motec is probably the best, haltech's are popular. autronic and wolf are supposed to be good, but not a lot of people have em.



megasquirt looks "ok", lots of people run microtech, but i think it plugs into the stock harness, so if you dont have the stock car it's prolly a bad idea. apexi's power fc also, its a plug in unit.



thats all i'm thinking of at the moment

looks like Megasquirt has really upped their quality and capabilities, and you can't beat their prices at all. looks like I can get the whole package for around 600$, ECU, sensors, cables, harness, and all for both fuel and ignition control.



So you are saying replace the twin HT-12's, with a single? Which manifold for this? What is your recommendation for both?

the dual ht-12's CAN do 300hp, but they generate a lot of heat. a single t04 will be a lot easier on the engine.



there are plenty of manifold choices out there, HKS, GReddy, etc etc

I couldn't find the GReddy manifold, although they have a turbo upgrade kit for the HT-12s. But Jesus, 1000$ for an HKS header?? Is there anything reasonable out there?



And from what I gather, the stock intake will suffice for 300hp, as the limiting choke point is the ports.



Also, am I correct in that if I use an ECU controlled coil pack, I can have the plugs fire simultaneously? What are the pros/cons of this? (In stock form one fires first, then the second, correct?)

Mazda has the timing between the two plugs optimized for a complete burn. The leading (lower) plug creates all the power because it fires close to TDC, so the only place for the explosion to go is through the relatively small dish in the rotor or push the rotor itself. The trailing (top) plug fires and burns off the rest of the gas mix (well, as much as it can) once the rotor is past TDC and the whole rotor face isn't split into two combustion chambers connected by the rotor dish. Making both plugs fire together at TDC would mean the force of the explosions on either side of the rotor will be equal, making a net force 0. Not good. If you tried to make them fire together after TDC, the combustion chamber would be expanding and the rotor would get MUCH less push.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HKS-TURBO-E...sQ5fAccessories



that is list price for that manifold, any hks dealer can do that price. better yet plenty floating around used too



for 300hp neither the ports or the intake are a limit, there are people making 500+ hp on stock ports and intakes.