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-   Rotary Engine Building and Porting FAQ Section (https://www.nopistons.com/rotary-engine-building-porting-faq-section-85/)
-   -   Oil Pressure Tips For Every Rebuild (https://www.nopistons.com/rotary-engine-building-porting-faq-section-85/oil-pressure-tips-every-rebuild-44734/)

Judge Ito 02-13-2005 07:51 AM

I've been reading members having all kinds of low oil pressure with a rebuild.

Here are a few tips that have worked for me over the years.



Where do I start? Ok Long thread.

Once the short block is assembled, you want to take your time and pay just as much attention to the rest of the build. When I say rest of the build, I mean the front part of the engine. Example, needle thrust bearings,end play spacer,counter weight, oil pump,timing gear and pulley bolt.



I wish my pc wasn't broken, I would have done a picture thread. but anyway here we go.

First thing you want to do, before final timing cover assembly, is to make sure the engine has the proper end play. I have found end play to work really great at .002-.0025 If the engine doesn't have this end play, check the letter your using and adjust the end play with a larger end play spacer or smaller end play spacer.(this is easier done with the timing cover off).



Ok you have the perfect end play and your ready for the oil pump install. Many engine builders have found a problem with AIR BUBBLES swimming inside the oil when the oil is being pumped through the pump and into your engine bearings.

Racing Beat sells a baffle plate to eliminate the nasty air bubbles from swimming inside the oil. The problem I have found is that even with the baffle plate, the air bubbles continue.



This first tip that I'm going to give is 1 of many treasured tips I have had for many years.

Judge Ito 02-13-2005 08:12 AM

The reason I have found air bubbles swimming inside the oil is a VACUUM leak between the aluminum oil pump housing and the engine. similar to running no gasket between the lower intake manifold and the engine ports. The engine will run but you could hear a real bad vacuum leak. The oil pump creates a vacuum as it works, because the aluminum oil pump housing has no gasket between the pump and the engine, air gets sucked in from the outside and into the oil, as a nasty air bubble.



Tip #1

I have made my own paper gasket for the oil pump. This gasket goes in between the pump and the engine. The gasket has to be no larger then half a thousand of and inch. I use school notebook paper. this way your not inferfering with the oil pump to engine clearance.

I have primed the oil pump before the gasket and found the nasty air bubbles, then I primed the oil pump after my gasket and found absolutely no air bubbles coming out and through the oil system.



A simpler tip is to use a very light application of silicon around the outer edge of the oil pump housing(be very careful not to over do it and get a silicon mess, that could go into the body of the oil pump itself.)



Tip #2 on the next page. I'm trying to keep members interested in breaking this thread into sections, instead of a long single page.

Judge Ito 02-13-2005 08:26 AM

Tip #2

Notice that the oil pump has a shaft that is used to align the pump. Take the oil pump before you tighten the 10mm bolts and find the center alignment of the pump. (Move it up and down,side to side and find the best center you can) Once you do that, only bolt down 2 of the 4 10mm bolts and manually spin the oil pump and make sure, it's not binding. Make sure is spining freely. If it's binding, your center is off and the oil pump shaft is rubbing against the side housing.(I have seen oil pumps and side housings destroyed in high revving engines because of this)



Once you have made your gasket or added a lite bead of silicon to the oil pump housing and aligned the oil pump perfect, then you could go ahead and torque the oil pump down.



tip#3 coming up..

Judge Ito 02-13-2005 08:35 AM

Ok tip#3



The nasty O-ring problem that doesn't like to go away.

I have all kinds of different things I do according to the engine application. Street engines,all out race engines and high revving 11,000 rpm engines I do different mods.



For the most common mod I do is.

take the timing cover and right where it meets and squeezes the rubber O-ring I go ahead and take a very sharp center punch and PIT that part of the timing cover(similar to my oil pan mod) when the surface of the timing cover is pitted it keeps the O-ring from trying to walk away when rpms go up and oil pressure is increased.



Tip #4 coming up

Judge Ito 02-13-2005 08:43 AM

Tip#4

The oil pick-up tube. Through out the years Mazda has made different kinds of oil tube pick ups. You need to pay close attention to the proper bolt that is used to tighten the tube. I have found that if the proper length is not used, the oil tube is not properly bolted down but will give the builder the feeling that it is. If the oil pick up tube is not properly secured a low oil pressure problem will arise. This seems to be the easiest part of the rebuild, but I have found it to be just as important as everything else.



tip # 5 coming up

Judge Ito 02-13-2005 08:55 AM

tip#5

ok the engine is in the car and ready to fire up. First things first you need to prime the engine and read some oil pressure. Usually I see about 30psi at cranking speed. that would be 250rpms.



Once the engine is running I manually check for SOLID oil pressure. I take my hand and squeeze the oil cooler hose coming out of the timing cover into the oil cooler. That oil line has to be BRICK HARD to the touch. When that oil line is brick hard that is a sign that you did a good job. You could then pat yourself on the shoulder.

As the engine warms up the oil pressure is reduced and the oil cooler hose will no longer be brick hard at idle but it will still feel quite heavy.





I hope you guys have learned a little from some of my trusted tips that have worked great for many years on all of my engines.

89 Rag 02-13-2005 05:35 PM

Man, that's really thoughtful of you to do this for us, thank you.



I performed the silicone sealant part of tip number 2 by accident, I thought I had lost a gasket in the kit and was to embarrassed to call and verify if one was sent in the first place or not. Now i'm kinda glad I was to embarrassed to call. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/blush.png

R.P.M. 02-14-2005 12:17 AM

Hey Judge,



What do you think of spraying some high temp gasket tack on the surface before installing the oil pump?

I have this gasket tack in a spary can, I just spryed a bit on the front iron and bolted the oil pump to it.



Hopefully that works because I just built a motor today and did just that.

Judge Ito 02-14-2005 09:59 AM


Originally Posted by R.P.M.' date='Feb 14 2005, 06:17 AM
Hey Judge,



What do you think of spraying some high temp gasket tack on the surface before installing the oil pump?

I have this gasket tack in a spary can, I just spryed a bit on the front iron and bolted the oil pump to it.



Hopefully that works because I just built a motor today and did just that.


As long as your creating a type of gasket it should work.

turborotor 12-25-2005 11:27 AM


Originally Posted by Judge Ito' post='671264' date='Feb 13 2005, 06:35 AM

Ok tip#3





take the timing cover and right where it meets and squeezes the rubber O-ring I go ahead and take a very sharp center punch and PIT that part of the timing cover(similar to my oil pan mod) when the surface of the timing cover is pitted it keeps the O-ring from trying to walk away when rpms go up and oil pressure is increased.



Tip #4 coming up



Ito, when you have the chance can you post a picture of this. I'm having a hard time visualizing this step.

sweet7 12-26-2005 12:49 AM

Forgive my ignorance, but what kind of variance should you see, OP wise, on a brand new motor, and a motor with some mileage on it?

Judge Ito 12-27-2005 05:57 PM


Originally Posted by turborotor' post='789888' date='Dec 25 2005, 05:27 PM

Ito, when you have the chance can you post a picture of this. I'm having a hard time visualizing this step.

ok carlos..

BDC 01-20-2006 10:22 AM

Great stuff, Ito. Thanks a bunch.



B

boost_creep 01-20-2006 10:38 AM

Thanks a million I am always inspired when I read ITO's stuff. You should write a book, Bro. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/bigok.gif

diabolical1 02-23-2006 03:28 PM


Originally Posted by Judge Ito' post='671258' date='Feb 13 2005, 06:12 AM

Tip #1

I have made my own paper gasket for the oil pump. This gasket goes in between the pump and the engine. The gasket has to be no larger then half a thousand of and inch. I use school notebook paper. this way your not inferfering with the oil pump to engine clearance.

I have primed the oil pump before the gasket and found the nasty air bubbles, then I primed the oil pump after my gasket and found absolutely no air bubbles coming out and through the oil system.

thanks for the tip here, Ito. let me preface by saying, i have nothing but the utmost respect for your talent and moreover, your selflessness when it comes to sharing with the masses. now, i'm not questioning you or your advice, per se, but i do have questions.



firstly, i'm a bit more comfortable making a gasket as opposed to simply using silicone. so silicone is out for me. however, the thought of notebook paper is also a bit frightening to me also.



i'm just leary about the notebook paper degrading with heat and contact with oil. have you ever pulled apart a motor you've built with this gasket and found the paper still in tact? also, what if one were to use that waxed paper that bakers use, might that be a better option?



i also just measured some automotive gasket paper and i got 0.03125 inch, which is obviously a far cry from the 0.0005 inch that you recommend, but what if you torque the oil pump bolts down another pound? might that help with clearance issues?



anyone have thoughts?

Judge Ito 02-24-2006 02:44 PM


Originally Posted by diabolical1' post='803680' date='Feb 23 2006, 09:28 PM

thanks for the tip here, Ito. let me preface by saying, i have nothing but the utmost respect for your talent and moreover, your selflessness when it comes to sharing with the masses. now, i'm not questioning you or your advice, per se, but i do have questions.



firstly, i'm a bit more comfortable making a gasket as opposed to simply using silicone. so silicone is out for me. however, the thought of notebook paper is also a bit frightening to me also.



i'm just leary about the notebook paper degrading with heat and contact with oil. have you ever pulled apart a motor you've built with this gasket and found the paper still in tact? also, what if one were to use that waxed paper that bakers use, might that be a better option?



i also just measured some automotive gasket paper and i got 0.03125 inch, which is obviously a far cry from the 0.0005 inch that you recommend, but what if you torque the oil pump bolts down another pound? might that help with clearance issues?



anyone have thoughts?

I have taken race engines apart using the gasket and no problems. gasket still there. But most race engines are torn apart more frequently then others. If your worried about the paper gasket. you could use a large O-ring on the body of the oil pump as a gasket. your going to need a machine shop to make the groove on the body of the oil pump to recieve the rubber O-ring

banzaitoyota 02-25-2006 09:24 PM

You mean they shouldnt look like this when you take them apart? https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png Sarcasm intended.



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-Ryan- 02-25-2006 11:39 PM

awesome write up.



Mind stating what the proper oil pressure SHOULD be and a quick write up with pics of installing a oil pressure/temp gauge on the 13b

diabolical1 02-28-2006 02:08 PM

use an adapter block for the fittings ...



http://www.racingbeat.com/FRmazda1.htm



"proper" oil pressure will vary according to application ... however, i've copied this directly from the Racing Beat page in the above link. you'd probably be better of starting a new thread to describe your proposed setup, then ask for advice from the experienced guys.




Originally Posted by Racing Beat
The normal oil pressure in a stock Mazda rotary is approximately 71 psi above 3,000 RPM, (110 psi above 3,000 RPM in the 1993-95 RX-7) and should never drop below 15 psi at idle (use a 0 to 125 psi gauge).





EDIT:

i just tried the link and it takes you to the main menu. so use the drop down menu to the left and scroll down to oil info. choose the pressure/temperature adapter and it should all be there.


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