I've heard both good and bad things on both Viton and Silicone. Stock can't handle a radiator or water pump failure. I haven't checked if Mazdacomp makes a higher temp version. Has anyone tried or have any knowlege on the Teflon ones? https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/dunno.gif

I've got stock ones in my engine now. If someone were to give me a set for free, then I'd put them in. Other than that, I've never heard of anybody in Japan losing an engine to an O-ring....now to apex seal failure, that's common https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...O_DIR#>/11.gif

I just bought a complete set of viton o-rings which I am going to try, it set me back about 80 canuck bucks to for the entire set for the motor, I took all the factory o-rings to an o-ring shop and got them to set me up with all the o-rings...

The outer water seal is rather large and has to be made from bulk stock, I am going to bond it with cyanocryalate(crazy glue) and put the join in a dry area of the housings, along with a dab of silicone at the join....Maxt

Huh? If I don't have to rebuild, what do I care if the o-rings are reusable or not? If they are not rebuilding for o-ring failure in Japan, then what do they know that we don't? https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/wacko.png

oring failure depends on maintenance!



change your coolant once a year and you should not have coolant seal failure for a very long time

That's my whole point!!! https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/blink.png Overheating is a bigger problem then Apex Seals. We get bigger intercooler, vented hoods, etc. You allready know the Apex Seals are a wearable part, just like a timing belt in a pisston engine. The difference being the price of replacement. The same kind of damage can be done with a broken timing belt as a broken apex seal. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/wacko.png

Replacement of the Apex seals is expected. Failure of the O-Rings is not!

I don't think that's true also. I think it's "preventative" maintenance. I plan on heat cotaing as many parts as possible. My rebuild was about 1.5 yrs ago. I was also running royal purple ice.

There was some chatter on an airplane engine site on what type of o-rings. They commented on using aluminum or copper solid wire, similar to copper o-rings in the V-8 racing engines, also a teflon coated wire. Just put the splice at the intake with a little red RTV. They did say this would be more of a race application and couldn't say on its longivity.

Richard https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png

thats interesting about the copper and whatnot https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png



But yeah, is there any difference between the O-Rings available for 13Bs that anyone should care about? I mean anything important or reliability improving, etc.

the renisis uses the same o rings as every other post 86 engine. the only reason the fd oens fail, is because of the turbos being right there.



mike

My car had an O ring failure, they do happen in Japan. Overheating and not changing the coolant are the major killers of the O rings. Mine was overheated by the previous owner! Warped the rear housing/plate, creating the problem.

I seriously believe in nothing but Mazda genuine parts. I have used after market seals for other reasons, for reasons that sometimes does not allow me to use original seals. Like apex seals for example. I need it a 1974 Rx4 13B engine for a customers car. The original 13B was in such bad shape that, I could not rebuild it or find parts for it. I had a company build a 1974 13B to original specs for my customers Rx4. I know that this company uses VITON OIL SEALS, I was not to happy about that. Well not to my surprise the Viton oil seals are not doing there job and the stock spec 13B is eating up oil and smoking at idle. At this point I have to take the engine out ship it back or try to get some money back from the company and tear it apart myself and replace every engine seal all over including the oil seals with Mazda OEM parts. I hope this has helped you a little..

I think I know which company you're talking about. I've only purchased one set of Viton oil O rings. They're going into an R5 4 port 13B in about two weeks. After reading your post, however, I'm thinking twice about using them.



Also, I recently rebuilt a different R5 13B with Viton O rings (he purchased everything and I put it together) and it's still in the break-in phase, but so far there's no smoke at idle. I'll let you know if it ever starts smokin'.

https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/wacko.png I thought the O-Rings were for water/coolant and not oil? https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683561.gif

I tend to call them water seals. They're more like large rubber bands than O rings, so it made sense to me at the time. O rings tend to be round. The water seals are square shaped, kinda like rubber bands. I knew I had to start calling them somthing to keep from confusing myself. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/wacko.png

Which oil control O ring is better between the original MAZDA and th Atkins?. I know that the Mazda is silicone coated with viton and the Atkins is pure viton , but which would really be better for use on my motor?.:confused:

I don't like the ones Atkins sells. They're too fat; the Mazda's work better comparatively.



V

Actually, I was recently trying to figure out what I could buy from a local industrial supply place and put together an upgraded viton soft seal kit.

The viton stuff they sell here is waaay cheaper than racing beat or mazda's. For example, the small water o-rings on the intake are like $.75 and RB wants $3.30. Might be cheaper online someplace. Problem is, some of them aren't the right thickness, like the rotor oil o-rings. Metric vs ASE, I believe. The rotor o-rings I got were way thick to fit into the ring groove, but the water seal, and the smaller oil o-ring seals fit perfect and cost about $.75 each. I'm also lookin at getting custom cut viton outer water jacket seals.

Anyways, not to get off subject, I wonder if that's why Atkin's rotor oring seals are thicker, because they're ASE... Their pricing is decent on them, though.

mazda's R&D budget > *



that's what i live by

Buy Mazda for the soft parts. Too much ****** around with aftermarket that don't quite fit properly. Just my 5 cents... https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/bigok.gif

Yeah , I think I'll stick with Mazda.

I used the ones from rotaryaviation...perfect fit and supposedly better than oem mazda...check them out at www.rotaryaviation.com

ideally though, would pure vitron, or what mazda used be better?

I have to disagree with you guys that say use only mazda oem. Mazda makes a lot of good quality parts, but sometimes there are better and cheaper alternatives. Like viton over rubber for example. I just don't like to pay more than I have to for rebuild parts, especially if there's something better available.

Fc3S.org went out on a limb an ordered a ****-load of the Correct sized viton O-rings from an unnamed source. I will have the Correct Sized inner coolant O-ring in a few weeks. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png

I absolutely agree, jay'. I do this myself on some of my rebuilds; I tend to look for alternatives over Mazda. I've found some, also. As well as viton, I don't agree with using it for an oil control ring, especially the outer, because of the temperature parts of the rotor get to -> we're talking near 500F degrees. Viton is good for -10F to 400F from what I remember; a teflon-encapsulated silicone o-ring is better here in my opinion.



B

Mazdas green inner and green outer oil seals. Do not use Mazdas outer (black colored) oil seal. green on green is what I started using lately. I have had some failures with mazdas black outer oil seal. Black outer oil seal is of a softer material then the green inner ones.

Do the green and black oil seals have different part numbers?

yes

O-RING - OIL SEAL OUTER 0820-11-341 4 Green

O-RING - OIL SEAL INNER 1202-11-343 4 Green



- do not use 8341-11-343 black o-rings.



From MAZDACOMP

Sweet. Thanks!

what are the green mazda ones made of? I know vitron comes in green,..

Reffering to the items above. what are these made from? I have the viton oil rings from RA that I am using. I have had to pull the motor out due to excess blow by. After reading this thread, I am considering using the stock oil rings when I put it back together.



Viton is better at standing up to chemicals like petrolium vs silicone, but silicone is better at withstanding heat. Are the green factory oil orings just silicone, or are they teflon encapsulated as mentioned above?



mike

Not once, but 3 times https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png I have had really good luck with my o-rings, especially in engines that have higher oil temps. Stock is always a good recomendation. Sometimes there are parts that are better. Mazda builds these in production. If they upgraded every single part they could, the cars would cost $250,000.

are these Mazda Green seals the ones that are black with the green band. Like Green on Black. rather than the all black ones?