|
Offtopic
Originally Posted by Offtopic
"From an extremely reliable inside source at SVT (who is best friends with my sister's husband), this is supposedly the gospel of a lot of what we will see in the new Cobra. This car is already scheduled to debut at the Detroit Auto Show in January of 2006 with delivery available in mid (May/June) 2006 as a MY2007. Prototypes that are on the streets today are almost indistinguishable from other SN197's other than tires and exhaust note. There are a couple using unorthodox hood arrangements but these are supposedly not the cars with the drivetrains we will see. Here is what I was told will be the heart and soul of the next Cobra. Time will tell...
Motor: 5.4 Supercharged, 3 valve heads (with HUGE valves), forged internals similar to the 4.6 (Crank, rods, etc), modestly rated (under rated actually) ~465 HP/495 lb ft Torque, using a twin screw S/C similar to that on the Ford GT but pullied differently, hence the lower HP. This motor was supposedly made official (in house only) just in the last few days. It will NOT be rated the equal or even close HP-wise as the Ford GT exotic for exclusivity reasons. It will have more restrictive intake/exhaust systems than the Ford GT which is partly to blame for the lower performance numbers. Also, a cold air induction system will purportedly being looked at as an option but may be standard if it can get past the bean counters. Transmissions: 6 speed manuals standard with a heavy duty 5 speed auto (the tranny used on the Ford Superduty but programmed/geared differently) as an option in late '07 or the '08 M/Y. Suspensions: A re-engineered, heavy duty IRS will be an option with a modified 3 link/panhard bar-live axle setup as the standard rear axle. SVT will be going for the Road Race buyer as well as the straight line racer with both axles optional. However, the Axle options are not set in stone as of the moment but look highly likely to be approved. The Cobra will be lowered about 1.5" from a stock GT. Bodywork: The retro theme will continue with a serious nod to the '67 Shelby. The fenders may be flared more than the standard '05 but that is not for certain as of now. The ducktail will be factory installed. Also, no convertible is planned for now but no reason was given other than concerns over chassis reliability due to the torque volume. According to "John Doe" (he does not want to get 'relieved' of his assignment), only 3 of the Cobra protos built so far have the S/C'd 5.4 in them. There are actually 6 or 7 on the streets now, not all at the same time but there are similarly painted versions of different cars. There are also supposed to be three Protos with 6+ liter motors in them, 2 with blowers, one that is N/A but these will not be used in the next generation Cobra. Supposedly, the 6+ Liter motors (he does not know the precise specs on them) are a Hurricane based engine with radical camming and a "first for Ford style of fuel delivery." I have no idea what he means by that and he would not elaborate to my sister either - apparently he was only repeating what he was told. Tires: Alledgedly, the 5.4 S/C'd cars are running 315's on the rears, 275's on the fronts using 18" rims. Similar setups are on the other Protos. However, the 315's may only be optional with 295's being the standard fare. Performance: The 5.4 S/C'd cars have been clocked in the very low 12's (12.10-12.25) in the quarter at nearly 120 mph and have been traction limited, according to "John". They are also supposedly able to pull over 1 G in handling. Per "John", SVT is also adding enormous brakes and will be using an air cooled Intercooler, opting away from the water cooled version used previously due to reliability concerns (?). Other touches will possibly include some form of active/adjustable suspension as an option but he did not know much about it. Supposedly, we should expect a price to be in the very high $30k range (base price - 6 speed, live axle, base tire/wheel combos) according to his sources in the know. Also - prototype Mach 1's are also on the streets. These are supposedly running N/A'd 5.4's, tuned for 370hp with the 6 speed transmissions for now and debate still ongoing about which auto to use. None of the proto Mach's are running the Shaker hood to keep them cloaked to spying eyes. This car is supposed to appear for the '06 M/Y with some final tweaking to be set in stone by Jan/Feb 2005. "John Doe" is considered to be an extremely reliable source. He said that Ford will rely heavily on already built/designed components rather than exotic pieces. He also said that Ford is hoping to stymie the rumored F-body's comeback sales numbers with more powerful engines in the V6/GT Mustang in M/Y 2007 cars, perhaps as high as 20% increases in HP/Torque with 10-12% increases in fuel economy. If true, we could be seeing 320/325 HP GT's in 2007! Purportedly, GM is planning to use detuned LS2's in the F-bodies and Ford wants to head them off early with upgraded 3v motors. I believe this info to be highly accurate based upon the source." Cliffs: Ford>GM DAMN. |
be a scurred....be VERY a scurred.
|
i thought this was refering to the new shelby cobra look alike that ford likes to throw in it's commercials from time to time.
It's still a mustang, so i'm not holding my breath. Ford has a way of making to coolest concepts a little gayer before they ever get sold. |
Well, time for a bigger turbo then...
|
Hate to squash the rumor here guys, but it won't happen. At least not the way this post is describing. SVT is gone, along with Cosworth Ford is pulling back on performance after the SVT Focus and SVT Lightining did not sell as well as was expected and Ford dropped below Toyota in terms of car sales. The 5.4 supercharged engine is nothing new in a mustang as that was the engine for the Cobra "R" racing car and has been for the past half a decade. The car that this post describes showed up at the SEMA show for Ford employee's and automotive press to joyride in, and, was very quick. However, it did not wear an SVT badge, and rumor had it that it was still the old engine from the 03 SVT with slightly modified induction. Also I would like to add that there is no 6 liter proposed block from ford as the largest engine ford produces is the 5.4 in their trucks. The camaro concept should be released this year and will use a normal tune LS2 in the SS model and a "slightly" detuned LS2 in the Z28 model. So expect near 400 horse in both cars N/A.
|
what ever happened to the 302? so sad. but i heard the cobra is supposed to stomp the new corvette.
|
The new cobra might keep up with the C6 but the Cobra is going to have to fall way short of the Z06 because that is GT performance and they don't want it interferring.
|
how do you have never ending knowledge of domestics?
|
Originally Posted by Shane.Trammell' date='Dec 24 2004, 01:21 PM
he drives one, therefore he is an expert |
Originally Posted by mazdadrifter' date='Dec 24 2004, 01:00 PM
i wasnt doubting any of the truthfulness of the info, i was really wondering. |
Originally Posted by Shane.Trammell' date='Dec 24 2004, 12:11 PM
Not an expert on Domestics. I just went to SEMA this year, and I read most of the GM performance mags along with Sport Compact Car, Import Tuner, Road and Track, and Car and Driver. It isn't that I am some kind of expert, I just spend a lot of time paying attention to the up and coming car news. Other then that I spend all my time on muscle car boards, so if I don't know something I am quickly corrected. The actual reason I joined nopistons, is because I really want to know more about rotaries because I love the fact that the engines aren't based off the water pump. The inherent problem is that I don't know anything about them so I can't really post effectively anywhere else on this board. All I can do is read the posts. |
Originally Posted by Bluemeaniews6' date='Dec 24 2004, 04:04 PM
Not an expert on Domestics. I just went to SEMA this year, and I read most of the GM performance mags along with Sport Compact Car, Import Tuner, Road and Track, and Car and Driver. It isn't that I am some kind of expert, I just spend a lot of time paying attention to the up and coming car news. Other then that I spend all my time on muscle car boards, so if I don't know something I am quickly corrected. The actual reason I joined nopistons, is because I really want to know more about rotaries because I love the fact that the engines aren't based off the water pump. The inherent problem is that I don't know anything about them so I can't really post effectively anywhere else on this board. All I can do is read the posts.
https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/bigok.gif just bustin balls man, tryin to keep the rivalry alive ya know. http://www.leghumper.com/forums/images/smilies/box.gif merry christmas! |
I know it was only a concept car, but, didn't Ford build a BOSS concept with a 6 litre V-10 in it??
|
Originally Posted by Jims5543' date='Dec 24 2004, 06:22 PM
I know it was only a concept car, but, didn't Ford build a BOSS concept with a 6 litre V-10 in it??
Not to my knowledge, but it might have been done. The big three are always building weird **** behind closed doors i.e. the GM performance sector that doesn't allow admission to their shop but once in a blue moon. The Boss mustang that was released to the public was nothing different from an SVT or a GT for the time (depending on which it started as stock) and was a paint scheme. Oh yeah, don't worry about busting my chops. The reason I responded with no venom is that you were right to bust my balls about my enthusiam towards muscle cars. |
Originally Posted by Jims5543' date='Dec 24 2004, 08:22 PM
I know it was only a concept car, but, didn't Ford build a BOSS concept with a 6 litre V-10 in it??
They did, it was in R&T last year I believe. One of those mags at least. They had severe problems with traction during the test IIRC! |
I still like the focus rs with the 4.6 SVT motor swapped in to it. I saw it run around the track at SEMA and it was crazy.
|
Originally Posted by Bluemeaniews6' date='Dec 25 2004, 04:26 AM
I still like the focus rs with the 4.6 SVT motor swapped in to it. I saw it run around the track at SEMA and it was crazy.
One of the races at Road Atlanta (the weekend of the d1 grang prix event) hosted a focus, that thing was pretty awesome. It did'nt have **** for the real time acura team though. There was another race that had some 1st gen rx-7's and old D-240's It was good to see some old school racing. |
they did have a boss concept, but i can't remember it having a v10, although that doesn't mean it didn't, i just can't remember.
As far as i know, svt is doing well. Ford has basically said that there will be a cobra either in 05 or 06. I'd assume either based off the 03' & 04' 4.6 S/C or the 5.0 cammer. Apperentlly the ford GTR ( i hate the name, should be mustang R not GTR) is a confirmed deal that don't conflict with the cobra or the guarenteed shelby. Shelby in an interview was asked if he like the look of the new mustang and he repliled "i'd better if i'm gonna put my name on it" basically saying there will be a stang with the shelby title. It's true that the SVT focus didn't sell as well sa they would have liked, but the lightning is doing great. Over here in california is seems the dominant cars on the track (wednesday nights at sac raceway) are 03 cobras, WS6s, comaros, and lightnings. I do see lots of them at the tracks, and I know they don't sit at dealers long around here. True, the sales numbers aren't high, but they don't make very many of them, much like the cobra. Personally i can't see how ford if going to manage all these performance cars all around the same target price range. They say the GTR will be under 50k, somewhere between 32&45k. I can't see that happening. The most recent concept that was driven by press was a stripped out 5 point harness 5.0 cammer with over 450 hp and no interior, full cage. It was a 80k machine, not because of the money ford put into it, but rather the kind of regulations for putting a car like that on the street. If i'm wrong about any of this i'm sorry. My resources are as far as i know accurate, i would never lie knowingly. I hang out at mustangworld.com alot, there are some of the most knowledgable people about cars i know there, and many many people there aren't mustang fans, very diverse. A bit too large though, and a bit immatrure at times. Anyhoo, i'm done now, sorry for the long post. I don't seem to find many threads here that i know something about, so i had to post. I myself have never owned a mustang, but my brother owned a 93 cobra (stolen) and a 88 gt (vandelized, sold) and i've worked on mustangs my whole life. And on a more personal note, i've never been in a factory stang that scared me. They should be feared due to potential, but stock... they're beatable. Mostly comes down to driver. I've seen people drive stock gt's into the 13.4 range, and i've seen stock gt's run 15's with no miss shifts. But even cobra's without a good driver aren't 12 sec cars stock. Ford plans to make a car that anyone can hit 12's with, but I fear that at the price they're trying to hit many of them will end up in the wreaking yard, ya know? Ok, i'll shut up now. |
SVT, like I said, is being phased out. The new Cobra will, if it exists, will be built by ford in house.
|
That last paragraph up top made me laugh. Ford will be upping the power in the stang gt to 325, to try and drive sales away from the upcoming camaro. The camaro SS had 325hp in '98, and 335 in '01. It just seems like Ford is acting like this car is a god, even though it's behind the power curve by about nine years.
"The all new 2005 Mustang- now with 300hp!". Sorry, the slp camaro ss was rated at 315 back in '96. My only other problem with the Mustang is it seems like Ford is trying to make it fill way too many slots in their line-up. From the 210hp v6 model, up to the supposed 450+hp svt. Granted, it will sell, but IMO, there will be a lot of people that wouldn't buy an svt because they'd be turned off by a $45k mustang. They'd rather spend their money on something higher class like a vette or porsche |
FYI, if the camaro is released, the SS model will have the LS2 as a base engine. Which means an underrated version of 400 ponies will be on tap.
|
Originally Posted by Bluemeaniews6' date='Dec 25 2004, 01:26 AM
I still like the focus rs with the 4.6 SVT motor swapped in to it. I saw it run around the track at SEMA and it was crazy.
did someone say focus rs? http://img94.exs.cx/img94/7967/dsc0061a2qr.jpg http://img146.exs.cx/img146/9048/dsc0064a4ut.jpg its not a bad car |
Originally Posted by Dakmis' date='Dec 26 2004, 05:42 PM
did someone say focus rs?
http://img94.exs.cx/img94/7967/dsc0061a2qr.jpg http://img146.exs.cx/img146/9048/dsc0064a4ut.jpg its not a bad car For a focus, no. It sure looks good that way. The rims aren't half-bad either |
Originally Posted by majeskyb' date='Dec 26 2004, 02:27 PM
"The all new 2005 Mustang- now with 300hp!". Sorry, the slp camaro ss was rated at 315 back in '96. My only other problem with the Mustang is it seems like Ford is trying to make it fill way too many slots in their line-up. From the 210hp v6 model, up to the supposed 450+hp svt. Granted, it will sell, but IMO, there will be a lot of people that wouldn't buy an svt because they'd be turned off by a $45k mustang. They'd rather spend their money on something higher class like a vette or porsche
The '05 Mustang has been said to handle better than the Cobra R...it's about more than just HP. |
The V10 stang was just something that a couple people in the back room of ford decided to do with an old test mule, they slapped an extra 2 cyls on one of the v8's, threw it in with the toughest tranny they could find, took it out for a spin, and went thru 3 or 4 T56 trannies. It was a one-off thing from a couple bored mustang guys, with no official company backing (far as i remember it)
And the RS is definately the best of the foci, I really like the way it looks, its very clean and stylish, especially compared with some of the "fast and furious" foci with altezza euro tail lights, outrageous "aliens have abducted my car" body kits, flatulent exhausts and "hit and run with a sherwin williams truck" paintjobs |
I saw something where they took a v-10 and put it in a stock looking 04 stang.
they were testing the engine for the shelby cobra. it was awesome. I want to get a 65 mustang and put the v10 from a f-250 in it. with mods of course. |
Originally Posted by Dysfnctnl85' date='Dec 26 2004, 07:23 PM
The '05 Mustang has been said to handle better than the Cobra R...it's about more than just HP.
That's the real irony. Chevy pulled off the drag stip in the late 50's in turn developing some of the best non irs american suspension ever, and now ford is making a mustang that handles great even without irs and with irs it turns much more like a 4wd car rather than the boat they're known as. The new chassis is so much better than the old one, this renovation was long overdue. True, the gt has been suffering from lack of hp in the recent years, but as it is ford has been struggling with the balance between performance, gas mileage, and smog regulations. Chevy has done much better with the single idea of just improving upon what was already there. It's true that ford it trying to do too much with thier mustang line, but mustangs have always been known as a tame sports car, it's the american miata. An underpowerd car with lots of potential, ford just takes it a bit farther than mazda the miata (:cough: rotary miata :cough:). What for REALLY needs if for the gt to be the highest hp mustang and for a new car to take it's place for the upcoming supermachines comming up soon. We're looking as some of the fastest cars in thier price range from all companies. The SRT-4 the new Civic-R of japan the C-6 vette look at every company and they're making more power, and getting better at passing smog regulations. The only thing that could stop this is gas prices, wich is what killed it all in the early 70's. But if ford reallly wants to compete, they need to have a car and say "this is out sports car" and the mustang just doesn't fit it. The cobra cars have always been known to the mags as one of the only cars to rival the vette's bang for buck ratio but has always fallen short due to a car layout that still screems chick car and/or american discomfot car. Heavy shifters, long throws, high places seats, bad blind spots, the car just wasn't bread for the track. It still has too much street mindedness in it's design. Now, let there be no doubt that they can't be fast. Ford has the tech to compete with eveyone else, they just don't have the best venue for it. This is the same problem ford has faced in the past. Anyone else remember ford stuffing a huge 427 into a fairlane because they didn't have a car to compete in the new weight regulations for the NHRA? That's insange, lets go put a v8 in the back of a bettle, it would be about the same insanity. |
The thing that stands out to me is where he says the car will be restricted so it won't make as much power as the GT - all of which are sold at this stage, so why would it make any difference if the new car has as much hp?
Mark |
Now, let there be no doubt that they can't be fast. Ford has the tech to compete with eveyone else, they just don't have the best venue for it. This is the same problem ford has faced in the past. Anyone else remember ford stuffing a huge 427 into a fairlane because they didn't have a car to compete in the new weight regulations for the NHRA? That's insange, lets go put a v8 in the back of a bettle, it would be about the same insanity.
[/quote] Apparently you never heard of a Chevy Vega with a V-8 Shoved into the flexible frame. Just the same though to all of this, yes the mustang has severe handling improvements for 05' but as any good racer will tell you, you still have to be able to hold the higher power cars in the straights (assuming you are running a high enough class to actually have straights) and therefore I would guess the CTS-V will trounce even the prepped new mustang just like it has been the F-Bodies and the Mustangs in almost all the classes available. And that isn't taking into account the CTS-V + that is scheduled to come out in small numbers around the same time as the BMW M5. The V + should have an LS2 that is punching out close to 500 ponies through IRS suspension and a weight of 3600lbs stock. Oh yeah, and I don't like the RS I like the RS that has been converted to proper RWD and has a supercharged V-8 shoved into it. |
assuming you are running a high enough class to actually have straights what do you mean buy this bluemeanie? Do you mean you don't think it's hard to drive an only hairpin downhill mountian pass at 80mph? Or am I mistaken entirely on what you said? I hope so. |
No no, I didn't mean it like that. Out here in CO we have a track called Second Creek Raceway. And, while it is a great track it evens out the mix between small demon handling yet tragically underpowered cars and Big Muscle Cars because the Muscle Cars don't have room to stretch their legs. The larger the max horsepower in the class the larger the raceway (to a degree). That being said, the smaller tracks prove the potency of smaller cars such as the S2000 which I can take with the firebird in the straights and in the twisties but I can't outbreak them and I can't carry quite as much speed through a tight hairpin. I hope that cleared it up a bit.
|
i assumed you didn't mean it the way i thought you did at first. I'm glad you clarified.
I actully when out with a buddy of mine who ones a 95 cobra and we went out to practice a local backroad (we're really into mountain racing... SF bay area is all hills) and his cobra only needed about 1/3 the braking my ZX did. BAH! I need parts. And I need them fast. It's not fair that a car that weighs 1000lbs heavier can brake that much better than me... I hate being so stock. |
Originally Posted by Bluemeaniews6' date='Dec 24 2004, 10:16 AM
The new cobra might keep up with the C6 but the Cobra is going to have to fall way short of the Z06 because that is GT performance and they don't want it interferring.
|
|
https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...>/rolleyes.gif kool.... same 5.4L truck engine with a supercharger as every other "sports" car ford makes. cost-cutting re-use of the Lincoln LS chassis *read, heavy and not designed for the application* as well as a live-axle (why didnt they re-design the LS IRS for a sports-car application?) w/e, the Z06 is where its at, truely a racecar for the road, designed from the ground up for 100% performance and as always, the Cobra is an attempt to build a sports-car from non-sports-car parts.
cliffs: GM>Ford, LS7>every version of that 5.4L, any Z06>any SVT Cobra. |
I actually just read that article in the most recent motor trend. It really does look like an interesting car. That being said I don't like the 5.4 with supercharging. It is, generally speaking, the same set up as the SVT Lightening and I haven't found them to be reliable when they are tuned to that degree.
However, it isn't fair to compare this current Shelby to the new Z06. They are two completely different ideas of how a car should be. Yes the Z06 is faster to 60 and yes it the cobra doesn't handle as well, but I would expect the Cobra to have more potential for drag racing because it doesn't have IRS and you can't really tune the Z06 any further without dumping a lot of money because of the dry sump. I like the look of the new Shelby and Ford brought it out of the backwater woodwork so cheers to them for mananging to keep it a secret. |
| All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:18 AM. |
© 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands