so i came across this..."Build Your Own Sports Car for as Little as £250" by ron champion (google it)



i found most people spend around 2-10k depending on how far they take it. i spend that just on parts for my cars...



and as long as you follow all the DOT guidelines you can get it legal for the road with a VIN. also, i have this Renesis sitting on an engine stand that i planned on putting in my 1st gen just because its light and relativley easy. but it just seems like a waste since its almost like dropping in any other 13b. i wanted to do a Renesis for more of a challenge and to get more fabrication time in. building a car from the ground up seems like the way to go...



but i dont really like the look of the one listed above. anyone know of any others that are better looking?

Are you after a styling exersize? A take on suspension? I have a set of molds for a McClaren M8A CanAm

car. The Lotus Super Seven (similar to the car in the book) is an easy build. My friend Gutted a Mini Cooper



Built a sub frame with an 8 inch Ford rear. The front was a Fiero front subframe. And a Mazda Pport rotary.

I built the engine for him. The Fiero subframe was the last car to use that subframe. It was used on the Chevette, and the Corvair. Bolts on with 4 bolts. Has all of the suspension and steering in one package.

Often used by home builders. He let the engine sit for three years before he ran three autocross passes with no oil pressure. Then he took that out and installed a small block Chevy with powerglide trans.

Perky little devil. And good looking. He was a body man.



It is better to start out with a real car to keep the title and tags thing simple. From scratch is a pain as each state has differing rules. Usually a picture log book and bills of sale for every damn piece you buy.



You can Gut any small car and go nuts with your own ideas. There are kits to install Chevy engines in just about anything, like RX-7s and Miatas. Jaguars and others. A Triumph TR-7 looks good, but the engine sucks. They are dirt cheap. Cheaper with a dead engine. A 69 Camero rear fits perfect. A chevy or big buick engine fits fine. It will burn rubber until there is none left.



You can buy a huge junker and make a miniature car from a full sized car. If you do great body work, chop narrow and so on. Whole rotary driveline. Grassroots Motorsports did a project car that was a 13B in a Triumph Spitfire. Makes a hell of a sports car. Many modern cars have the motor in front of the trans,

in the front of the car. These can be moved to the rear, for a mid engined car. I have built 17 cars so far, but I'm slowing down now. Lots of folks start on a kit car and never finish it. Look in the kit car books and news groups for sale cars.



Lynn E. Hanover

some great info there...



im just building it to look good, and be a fun driver. i dont plan on entering any races.



the "locost 7" is a replica of the lotus super seven. from what i have seen, people are actually building these for 2k. at most 5k. buying a kit car set up is usually exspensive.



im most likely going to use a 1st gen as a donor car. but that fiero sub frame sounds nice, think it will work nice with the locost 7 build?



heres the chassis build dimenensions and drawings: http://www.mcsorley.net/locost/

my friend, who is a suspension engineer, has been looking at that, the rx8/2006+ miatas, at least the front, is all self contained on the subframe. geometry is good, parts are inexpensive.



maclaren m8a huh? that would be too cool!

most of these guys claim 1000-1500lbs complete. that would be nice with a stock block Renesis.

lynn...



you have a shot of the fiero sub frame bolted up in the kit car???



i found some good info on using the complete rear sub frame from the miata. fits nice in the locost 7 (lotus super 7 replica). wanted to see if using the front sub frame from the fiero would make this build even easier. since fabbing steering suspension is one of the harder parts.

The Fiero front subframe would be for a mid-engine, RWD car only, just an FYI.

the front sub frame. not the rear...FYI



rear i'll most likely use the miata sub frame.



this would eliminate fabbing both front and rear suspension components. only having to make mounting points. the miata has been done a few times. but i havnt seen the fiero done. but lynn said hes done it, so...its do-able. but i dont know it its do-able on the "locost 7"

I forgot that the Fiero was a parts bin car... thought it actually had a mid-engine front subframe. I forgot that it was actually just a RWD subframe. Which was why it was garbage.

It was not all that bad. It was scrapped when the V-6 version cut into Corvette sales. Another feature was that it mounted plastic panels to machined blocks of plastic, for a perfect fit.



Many folks made great looking bodies to fit that chassis. Lambo and Ferrari copies.. There are many each year at the SCCA National at the Pocono race track. They have their own show for kit cars and alternative power and so on.



Lynn E. Hanover

I recall having some interest in the Fiero when it was first introduced back in, I believe, 1984. Much like the Corvair of the 1960's, it was a car that gathered some negative reviews in the early going. GM worked out the bugs and succeeded in making a rather competent little car, then discontinued it. Chalk it up to a long line of bad decisions on the part of GM management.

Looking at the Chassis you picked, I hereby withdraw my suggestion for the Chevett/Corvair/Fiero subframe. Better used in a car where it will be out of sight. Kind of GM klunky looking. Your chassis deserves an elegant solution.



Go to WWW.Colemanracing.com and order a catalogue. Hundreds of great ideas for folks who build circle track cars from scratch.



In you case I would use pinto or similar spindles. A Coleman upper A arm in anodized aluminum. A Coleman lower lateral link and strut in steel with a monoball. Slip on coil over kit on Bilstien shocks. Perhaps a Ford Fiesta steering rack. That is what I used on my last car. Shortened to about 10". Far easier to do than it sounds. All of the parts are available if ever needed. No too bad on prices. Brutally strong stuff. And it will look good out in the airstream. There must be a source for front fenders similar to the Lotus, to complete the illusion.



Lynn E. Hanover

how would you go about shortening the steering rack?



im looking at miata spindles and hubs since i know there is brake upgrades. plus im already using the miata sub frame for the rear, so the braking will match. i'll be making my own a-arms for the front also.

Even with stock miata brakes, the car will suck your eyeballs out of their sockets. Its a light car, it doesnt need big brakes, big wheels, big tires, etc. Actually, its the opposite. All of those things will only make the car heavier and not perform as well. Start adding unsprung weight, and you need to start stiffening the chassis to let the suspension work properly again, and it just snowballs. Look at the Mercedes-Mclaren SLR. CF chassis, no penny wasted in performance, and it weighs 2 tons. And then the lotus elise. Despite being less than half the weight, its every bit as competent on the track as the SLR, and arguably even better. In the terms of performance, bigger doesnt necessarily mean better.

I use large lower A arms to get minimal roll steer. So both loer As pivot on bolts side by side in the center of the car. Just in front of the crank pulley. So, just above that I hinge a long tiller bar to carry the steering rods, also bolted side by side. The steering rack is mounted well to the left in a more convenient location and just the right side steering arm going to the tiller bar. So the steering box has no left side arm at all. And a shortened right side arm.



Crank the rack to full left for front steer arms, count the turns to full right lock. Return the rack half way. Clamp the rack where the steering wheel shaft will clear all of the clutter. Determin how long the rack needs to be, to get about the same length steering arms. For a street car they need not be exact.



Should the right side be too long, mark on the steering arm where the hole in the spindle arm goes under the rack arm. Tape that point. From there to the tip of the arm is the overage. Let us say that it is 4 inches. Install a rod end in the cotrol arm. Mark the rack arm where it would bottom in the rod end.

Say that is 2 more inches. So the rack needs to be 6 inches shorter.



Disassemble the rack. From a smooth area on the right side of the rack, (as smooth as is possible) cut out a 6 inche section of rack tube. From the rack cut off the right end 1/4" inboard of the threads.



Measure along the rack from the cut off point, and cut off 6". Chamfer both pieces and weld or braze the threaded end back on. Smooth to original. Weld the rack tube back togther. Assemble the rack, now 6 inches shorter. Works well for steel or aluminum racks. When welding the rack tube, install the rack to keep the bearing sleeves aligned. Piece of cake.



Lynn E. Hanover

The Fiero is a mid engine.



Its the driveline from any X body front engine car. Remeber those awfull things?



There is a hill holding requirement for cars sold in California, in case any fools park on a hill in SanFransisco. So that testing is done at the transportation research center in Marysville Ohio where one of my drivers works as a test driver instructor.

The X bodies could not stay on the hill with the emergency brakes set with the standard pull on the lever. So, GM added larger rear drums as the fix, with no change in brake balance valving. All was well until some idiot drove one in the rain, and touched the brakes, and discovered the rear wheels passing the fronts with the rears locked up solid. Every single car manufactured had to be recalled.



One of the engineers we race against drives a Ford Probe tube frame, and is a driveline engineer for GM. His department is empty. He ships all of the questions to a company in India where they answer all engineering questions. He knows that half of the answers are bull ****, but he must pass them on to production anyway. GM is dead. The UAW has beat the last penny out of GM. There is nothing left.

They just need to bury the casket. Now tell me where the retirement checks will come from for thousands of retired UAW. They will get half payments from the US Government. That would be your tax money. Thank you UAW. Same thing at Ford. They just sold Jaguar and Rover to Tata in India. Does that give you a warm fuzzy feeling?



Lynn E. Hanover

yeah ford could not actually design a brake system if you asked them too. they would just call bosch, or ate, or one of the other companies, and say "we've got a xxxxlbs car we need to stop"

Since we're on the topic of building cars.... I found this on the Neon forum. Looks a bit crazy to me, but what do I know?

Looks like a kit car Chassis. Has a later beetle front suspension. It is a mid or more probably a rear engined piece. That chunk of donor car looks to have a side winder engine. So guess a rear engine 5 speed with IRS. No clue on the bodywork.



Another kit started but never finished.



Lynn E. Hanover

Here is another gag on building upper A arms. Don't. Just drill out the upper ball joint hole to 1/2". Make up two lengths of 3/4" water pipe, or EWR steel tubing.



Turn down two 1/2x20 long lug nuts leaving a shoulder about 1/2" from the end. Press the nut into the tube and weld.



install a sleeve on a 1/2" bolt. Slip the bolt through two rod ends screwed into the lug nuts. Another sleeve and through the hole on top of the spindle. Big nut tight as possible. Mount the opposite ends on tabs about level fore and aft and a bit lower than the outer ball. Instant upper A.



I can make drawings of anything if you need them.



Lynn E. Hanover

I found this picture of the early version of the latest Chassis. This one has Mustang II front spindles. Drilled at the top for 1/2" bolts. Drilled and tapped at the bottom for 3/4" by 20 for bolts through the

3/4" rose fittings from Coleman. These spindles are just slightly bigger than Pinto spindles.



In my case, I slipped the tubular stub axels from a quick change rear over the spindle and TIGed it in place. So, I could use the rear hubs all the way around. One spare hub fits anywhere. Also ungodly strong, light and bolts to any 72 fin by 12" by 1/14" rotor. Enough to stop a 747. I picked this shot because you can see the two simple rod end tubes forming the upper "A" arm, rather than a construct of some sort. Quick, strong and can produce any camber gain you might want. Same pieces on the car for

7 years now. I got this Idea from Jerry Mong, who used it on all of his Bobsey sports racers. Before you were born probably. The second shot is me and the finished chassis. Just 135 pounds with the belly pan.

All SAE 4130. Looks a bit like a Lotus.



Lynn E. Hanover