Hi all,



Been working on a GB for big brakes for the FD - that initially started as a rear larger 2-piece rotor solution (using OE J-Spec RS/RZ rear calipers) for those that have a front big brake kit already (AP, Brembo, etc). Everbody knows that there are a number of big front brake kits available, but there is currently nothing for the rear. While one can 'fix' the change in balance with a brake bias proportioning valve, ideally it's better to go with a larger rotor in the rear. Also, as that the larger rear OE RS/RZ spec rotors are only available in a single piece cast rotor, it might not look quite right if you've got a nice set of machined aluminum hat 2-piece rotors on the front and ugly cast in the rear.https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...DIR#>/wink.png



It's now developed into a GB for BOTH the front and rear RZ/RS spec calipers (and related hardware) along with custom larger 2-piece rotors designed as an exact replacement for the OE cast rotors.



Maximum flexibility was designed into this GB, so whether:



- you're looking for just a rear brake solution to go with your current front big brake kit

- want to replace just your front brakes with the RZ/RS spec

- want to replace front and rear with RZ/RS spec calipers

- have RZ/RS calipers already, and want nice 2-piece rotors to replcae the OE cast single piece



there's a solution for you. All parts can been ordered ala carte (just the rear rotors, just the front calipers, or any combination/etc to suit your situation), or you can get the complete solution should you need.



This may interest FC owners as well, as that I have *heard* that one can bolt stock front FD calipers and rotors to the front of FCs with 5 lug hubs. I do not know much about FCs though, so FC owners please chime in.



Precision brakes will be handling the custom 2 piece rotors, and still working on a vendor for the OE calipers (though it's down to Corksport or the RX7Store, if such a GB is not something Rotary Extreme or JT can do at the moment - last chance, let me know guys! https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...DIR ).



Still working a few minor details, but should have details this coming week - including specs, pictures, etc. Prices look very, very good. This will be a very affordable, effective brake solution, and I'm excited (if not a little tired from the phone calls, emails and legwork hehe) about getting this going.



More soon.



This GB post is Vosko approved. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png

how much?

I'll have the prices posted the next couple days. Still have to iron out a few details, but looks very good.

I may be interested, depending on the price..

Sounds good, just let me know pricing.

dclin,



I'm interested to know if there is a rear brake kit for the FCs.



Dom

Likewise...



interested too....

Hi Dom,



WHile the rear rotors may bolt up to an FC(if you have a 5 lug), I'm not sure that the rear calipers will. I have never heard it mentioned as being possible, but think it may involve having brackets made to adapt it to the FC's mounting points.



I have heard that the front FD brakes will bolt onto the front of FCs (with 5 lugs), but have never seen it it in person. I do know a FD with (what appears to be) FC brakes though - the previous owner was apparently ripped off by a shop that did brake work on the car, and my friend bought the car not knowing what FD brakes look like. I'll post pics so that you FC guys can ID.



I would like some input from FC owners about converting brakes though, and as of right now - until FC owners can say with certainty that it will retrofit - this buy is currently for FDs.



Prices will be posted tonight or tomorrow on the rotors (need to format it). Rotary Extreme emailed saying he'll have prices on the calipers in the next few days.

Sounds good, Also I will wait to see prices...

im gunna guess that this will cost as much as aftermarket breaks

Sorry - need to confirm one last detail with Precision before posting prices. Make a long story short, the guy I was working with there left the company, and I have to reconfirm each detail with their GM - and one skipped my mind. I've jumped the gun a number of times posting details on the RX7 Club, and not going to make the mistake again. Expect later today (Thursday). Thanks!

OK, here are the prices on the custom 2 piece rotors - deduct $5 per rotor with you need them plain (not slotted or drilled).



Target will be 10 pieces front (5 pairs) and 10 pieces rear (5 pairs). They will work with us if we're short a pair or two, but I don't think it will be a problem.



These are custom-machined, 2-piece rotors like you would find on most custom big brake kits, but made to fit the RZ/RS spec calipers. Rotors are directional vane, and are stress relieved and balanced. The hats are custom machined aluminum that are similar in appearance to the AP brake hats available from N-Tech. The hardware is SAE socket head cap screws (Allen bolts) (which are zinc plated) with stainless steel AN flat washers. The hats are purpose built for the application and are hub centric without the need for adapters.



Some nice things they've thrown in, as NO COST OPTIONS: plating of the rotors (to prevent unsightly rust on the non-swept rotor area) and you choice of black, blue, or red hat colors.



Working on trying to get us a bit more off the calipers, hang tight for those prices. Basically though - you can expect to get a front AND rear big brake solution (all four 2 piece rotors and OE spec RZ/RS calipers) for LESS then the cost of a N-Tech AP front big brake kit.



I go into more detail tomorrow on application, specs, etc.







REAR

10 PIECES



Slotted 227.58/rotor

Cross drilled 275.58/rotor

Slotted and Cross drilled 271.58/rotor



20 PIECES



Slotted 205.52/rotor

Cross drilled 275.58/rotor

Slotted and Cross drilled 247.32/rotor



40 PIECES



Slotted 186.78/rotor

Cross drilled 230.10/rotor

Slotted and Cross drilled 226.49/rotor



Cost breakdown for J-Spec 2 piece RX7 rotors:



FRONT

10 PIECES



Slotted 268.60/rotor

Cross drilled 316.60/rotor

Slotted and Cross drilled 312.60/rotor



20 PIECES



Slotted 246.66/rotor

Cross drilled 292.26/rotor

Slotted and Cross drilled 288.46/rotor



40 PIECES



Slotted 225.11/rotor

Cross drilled 268.43/rotor

Slotted and Cross drilled 264.82/rotor

Can't wait to hear prices....will these brakes work with the stock wheels?

You'll need 17's to clear the caliper I believe

That's correct.

For people who are looking for cheaper rotors, I can offer you guys the 99 spec bracke rotors at the following prices:



Front: $160 each



Back: $150 each.



Hope the cheaper rotors can help out the group buy.



Chuck Huang

nice prices chuck!

Ok, going into to detail regarding this brake solution. There is a ALOT of options and considerations (some of which has been mentioned, but I'll go over again), so read carefully. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...DIR#>/wink.png



Brief history:



As everyone knows, the FD brakes are pretty good for an OE job - but for track work, people have looked for other solutions (in the form of various big brake kits) for even more capability. Mazda appeared to agree that the FD could use a little more 'whoa', and in 1999 (in the Japanese market of course, since no longer sold anywhere else), they upgraded some models of the FD (RS and RZ)with larger, more effective brakes - front and rear. There is also the Spirit R brakes that came later, but the best that we can tell is that it is the same specs as the RS/RZ - but painted calipers and drilled rotors, and a much higher price tag according to Jimlab (other forum). If it's too expensive for Jim, it's too expensive for me.https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png



Previous solutions:



Meanwhiles, those with the OE smaller brakes turned to front big brake kits from various companies like M2 and N-Tech. Besides the heavy price tag for almost all of the kits, they ended up with front brake bias. It's correctable of course with a proportioning valve and other tricks, but in the end, one would still have a more capable brake set up front compared to the rear. And nobody makes a large brake kit for the rear, and certainly not with shiny aluminum hats or replaceable, directional vane rotors like found in the aftermarket kits.



The only thing that has come close so far is the Widefoot bracket developed by David Breslau, Brad Barber and others to allow Wilwood NDL calipers to work with the '99 spec rotors. The drawback? You lose the parking/e-brake. David has under consideration doing the braket to include a mechanical spot caliper to retain the parking/e-brake funtion, but no word as to when it will be available. Pics and an excellent write up of the Widefoot racing solution is on Max Cooper's page:



http://www.maxcooper.com/rx7/how-to/brakes...rear/index.html



Summary of problems:



- No rear big brake kit (other then the Widefoot Racing bracket) to balance out a front big brake kit available. Widefoot Racing NDL solution loses parking/e-brake function, and only rotor available at this time to use with it is the cast, single piece, straight vane rotor



- No really affordable front big brake kit that keeps OE quality and maintenance. The only thing that comes close to this price is the M2 Wilwood kit, but the Wilwood calipers do not have dust seals - requiring you to rebuild more often. A Wilwood represenative advises a brake caliper rebuild every year or so, depending on usage. The one year interval is recommended for someone attending several track events a year. www.wilwood.com .



There is also the Mandeville front brake 'kit', but this comprises of paring larger 2-piece rotors with modified 93-95 spec calipers. I do not know what Roger's current pricing is, but I expect it to be higher then what is listed on Rob Robinette's archive - based on our discusion when I was originally looking into this. FYI, Roger's quote was a starting price of $800 for a pair of custom 2-piece rotors like the ones quoted by Precision, and the reason why we are going with the Precision solution. (BTW, I want to say that Roger is the NICEST guy in the RX7 community, and his prices reflected his time - or lack of it. He's in demand (as a race care builder and consultant), and his prices reflects this. Hats off to one of the legends in the Rotary community.



http://www.rx7turboturbo.com/robrobinette/bigbrake.htm



The solution:



Afordable, better performing larger brakes with custom 2-piece rotors that maintain OE quality and maintenance.



Thanks for the quote on the single piece OE cast iron rotors, Chuck! If one is really scraping pennies and/or plan on light track usage, Manny (SleepR1 on the other forum) can attest that the OE cast iron rotors are a good thing, and certainly better then the '93-95 cast iron rotors.



But I tend to want better, and for a little more - there will now be an affordable 2-piece rotor for the rear (and front) as well. So what makes a (good) 2-piece rotor better then the OE single peice rotor?



- Custom CNC machined aluminum hat. As like pretty much other 2-piece rotors, the Precision rotors will consist of a custom machined aluminum hat for less weight. I do not a picture of the exact design at the moment, but it will look like the traditional hats with a flange available in other kits. I specifically had them do this so that it would match better aesthetically for those that have a front big brake kit.



Not only does the aluminum hat contribute to lower unsprung weight, but also lower rotational weight as well. Lower unsprung weight helps contribute to faster suspension response to road irregularities, which results in better handling and a more comfortable ride. Lower rotational weight results in better performance, both in accerlation and deceleration.



And it just looks cool behind the spokes of your wheels! Red, blue or black is a no cost option in this buy, that Precision normally charges for.



- Directional vane rotor of the custom rotor, vs. the straight vane of the OE rotor. Much better cooling of the rotor



Directional vane (curved in this illustration, need to confirm if ours will be so as well. Ours will be directional irregardless)

http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/...9929340018.jpg



Straight vane, which the OE is

http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/...3481902525.jpg



Here is an example of Precision brakes custom 2 piece rotors. Note that ours will have a more traditional look - 'hat' with a flange

http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/...7112230451.jpg



The RS/RZ spec OE single cast rotors look basically like the one on your car now, except larger in diameter of course.



The calipers



These will be brand new, factory Mazda RZ/RS spec calipers. They are essentially identical in specs to what we have now, except that the offer a painless way to use the larger rotors. Because they are factory, they will fit like factory parts. Other then the labor to install these, there will not be any custom fabrication or general frustation that sometimes accompanies fitting aftermarket parts. And it retains the parking/emergancy brake as well, for those that want it.



Why this GB is good



- Offers a complete front AND rear big brake solution that is less then some of just the front big brake kits of others out there

- Flexibility - need just one passenger side front rotor? You can be part of this buy. Don't know what you are going to do with just one, but we'll take you in anyways hehe. The point is though - you can order everything ala carte, based on what your need is. (still working on the calipers though, and the caliper *might* need to be order in pairs - but I don't think so. Details soon)



Need just an affordable, factory quality brake solution that looks nice? Get just the front calipers and the rotors. Have an AP front big brake kit already, and need just the rears to balance it out? Order just the rear parts. And if you've got nothing right now - order the whole set! https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...DIR#>/wink.png



Some considerations before joining



If you have the stock 16" wheels, the front RS/RZ spec calipers will not fit as is. The rear is fine and should not be a problem. However, I am looking into whether the use of a 5 or 10 mm spacer will allow you to use the front RZ/RS caliper with the stock 16" wheel.



While the RZ/RS caliper does sit a bit closer to the inside diameter of the wheel, there's plenty of room, and it's my understanding that the majority of the fitment issues come from the wider width of the calipers (to clear the wider front rotor). The issue here appears to be 'pad height' - or how much clearance is available between the spokes and the caliper itself, in a lateral direction.



I may need to just order the front myself now and test fit - unless there is someone with it installed already that can do a bit of measuring for me.



Spacers are available from H&R for about $50+, and will require longer studs pressed in as well. http://www.hrsprings.com/site/frameproducts.html More on this as I do the research.



Specs



93-98 FD brake rotors are sizes:



front - 11.6" diameter, .87" thick

rear - 11.6" diameter, .79" thick



'99 RS/RZ spec is:



front - 12.36" diameter, 1.25" thick

rear - 12.36" daimeter, .79" thick



Custom 2 piece Precision brake rotors

- Directional vane rotors, RZ/RS spec direct replacement - stress relieved and balanced. Plating to prevent rust on unswept areas on cost option

- Custom CNC machined aluminum hats

- Hardware is SAE socket head cap screws (Allen bolts) (which are zinc plated) with stainless steel AN flat washers





-------------------------



Ok, that's it for tonight. I have more I want to talk about the rotors tomorrow, but the above reading should cramp some brains tonight. Post your questions, and I'll answer them as best as I can.



GB to start by the end of the week. I still have to talk to Jason/RX7 store, but he's been closed for the last 4 days or so. I'll call him Monday.



----------------------



Special thanks goes out to Rotary Extreme and Jason/JT Imports. Thanks for your input - both of you could have just blown me off over what is obviously a low profit item, but you guys took the time to help me. I appreciate it.



People - buy stuff from them.



OK - bed time. Goodnight. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...DIR#>/wink.png

nothin new?

Yes, hang tight - prices for the calipers are finalized. Need to get final approval from nopistons before posting, don't want to step on any toes. I'll talk more about the rotors tonight, but it's mostly just FYI - technical stuff.

Oh, and if nobody can get me measurements on the RS/RZ front calipers as far as clearance of the 16" wheels - to determine if wheel spacers will allow the use of the stock 16" wheels for those that want to keep this option - I'll order the front calipers this next couple of days and test fit.

In compliance with the admins wishes, I cannot promote the caliper GB in this thread. Nopistons has my deepest gratitude for allowing continued discussion about the rotor GB. Any caliper related questions, please contact me on the other forum (same user name:dclin), or check the thread 'Spirit R brakes' in the Suspension/Wheels/Brake section of the other forum. A GB post covering all aspects of the GB will be up over there soon.



Regarding the rotors, another aspect of of the 2 piece design is that it allows one to replace just the rotor part of the brake rotor, which *may* result in savings, and/or allow you to use the replacement brand/model rotor of your choice.



Before going on though - in this post, my use of 'rotor' refers to the rotor part of the 2 piece rotor, and 'hat' refers to the machined hat of the assembly. (duh https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...).



Replacement rotors will be available from Precision for roughly $150/rotor. You do have other brands and models to choose from, though, and may be worth considering if you do alot of track events (and go thru rotors often). One of my requirements for the 2-piece rotors is that it uses a universal bolt pattern (to attach the rotor to the hat). This way, you are not required to buy Precision rotors if should want to use something else.



There are considerations though, so please read carefully:



There are a number of companies that make universal replacement rotors for 2 piece brake rotors, including www.wilwood.com , www.colemanracing.com , www.apracing.com and others.



However - with the exception of AP rotors (for the front rotors, not the rear) - nobody makes a replacement rotor that is the exact diameter of the RZ/RS spec rotors, which is 12.36". The closest 'standard' rotor is 12.19" .



What this means is that - should you choose to replace your rotor with a 12.19" rotor - the brake pad will 'hang over' the rotor by about 3mm or so. There is debate as to whether this makes any difference, with the brake vendor (obviously) not recommending you do so, and at least one track guy saying that he has not had any problems with his Mandeville front brakes (which has its brake pads overhang the rotor by a little bit). Another suggestion is to simply trim the excess brake pad.



The official word is that this is NOT recommended, and you do so at your own risk. We are all adults though (or at least most of us hehe), and this option is left open to you (by employing the universal bolt pattern) and your performance shop's judgement. Brakes are serious business though, and use professional judgement to decide what is better for your application. Again, do so at your own risk.



Why would you consider using a 12.19" standard rotor? Price - a Wilwood standard straight vane ultralight replacement for the rear (12.19" X .81") goes for as low $40.



http://precisionbrakes.com/wilwood_ul_vented.html



If you track alot, this can be significant savings over time. Of course, that straight vane rotor will not be as good as the heavy duty directional vane that comes with the 2-piece rotor as part of this buy.



You have other options if you will not settle for anything less the correct diameter though. If you prefer Coleman rotors, they can make exact replacement rotors for you (the correct diameter, etc). Here is a link, and this example would be good for the front rotor:



http://www.colemanracing.com/section/index.htp?id=384



Other brake vendors can make custom replacement rotors for you as well, and you will need to do your research on this. Whatever you do, if you are not a professional, please consult with one before making any choices. Coleman, Wilwood, and other brake vendors (along with Precision of course) can help you make the right decision when it comes to replacing those rotors, when the time comes. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...DIR#>/wink.png

I probably don't need to say this, but I'm in for at least a set of slotted front & rear rotors.

so these rotors are not FC approved huh

Well, until some FC owners can actually tell me whether at least the front kit can fit w/o problems, I'm not officially endorsing this as an FC solution.



FYI, I am now positive that the FD my friend has does indeed have FC calipers, based on the pictures of calipers that I have seen of FC's. However, being able to mount the parts is just one part. There could be other considerations, such as clearance, etc. We will never know until somebody actually bolts a '99 RS/RZ spec to an FC. I'm guessing if it has happened, it probably somebody in Japan.

the calipers will fit. The rotors will not.

Hey Dan,



Do you want me to try my contacts at Mazdaspeed to try and get the calipers??? Let me know.



Peace, Rishie

I'm interested in what we can do to adapt the rotor to the FC. Now the PBC rotors I don't believe are two piece floating, are they????



Rishie

Hey Rishie,



I'm sorry, I keep forgetting you can get more things besides wheels/tires. I should have gotten a quote from you as well, but the buy is already under way with a vendor that cannot be named here.



The PBC rotors are actually fixed, and not floating. Roger Mandeville (when I was working with him on the rotors initially, until it became apparent he could not do them for a competitive price) said that he did not believe there to be any real world advantages to a floating design. Seeing as he's a race car designer/former winning racer/etc, I did not dig much deeper into his thinking.



If you have any ideas of adapting the RZ/RS spec components to the FC though, I would love your input - thanks!



Daniel

Hi all, Cut off date for ordering the rotors is next Friday (tentatively, may extend it a day or two for stragglers) - you may call in to place your deposit (50%) with Precision starting today. Phone number is on thier website, www.precisionbrakes.com .



Visa/MC/Discover, Paypal, and check is accepted. Check will require clearance before item ships. PM me with your full name, and I will start a list of names (first name, last initial) here and on the other forum.



Still working on a few small details regarding the calipers, please PM or check, um, the other forum.



Thanks!

How much for the RZ rotors?

Prices are on the first page. GB has been extended to Monday. Please visit the other forum and go to the Group Buy section for more details.



We are at 30 rear rotors officially, and may make the last price level based on feedback i've gotten over the weekend. This means, as an example - rear, slotted rotors are $205.52/per rotor at the moment, If we make the last level, it will drop to $186.78 . That's CHEAP for quality, custom made 2-piece rotors with machined aluminum hats. Price varies on what you need - front rotors, rear rotors, slotted, etc.



Thanks!

I can't seem to find the thread on the Spirit R Brake Calipers. I want to know how much those puppies cost.



As for the Rotors, can I use the Rotors with the 93-96 calipers? I'm on a budget. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...R#>/violin.gif

I cannot discuss the caliper GB here. Go to www.rx7club.com -> Classifieds -> GB section -> RZ/RS GB thread



No - the RZ/RS rotors are larger in diameter then the '93-'95 (and the front rotor is thicker as well).



You might be able to machine/make brackets to make the rear '93-'95 caliper fit, but by the time you invest the time and money to do so, you might have as well bought the brand new rear RZ/RS calipers and sold your old ones on eBay.

In case anybody is not following the RZ/RS GB thread, the 16" wheels will NOT fit over the front RZ/RS calipers. It may do so with a 1" spacer, but that's too much - 5mm or 10mm might have been ok. Check the GB thread in the other forum for more details.

GB participants - check your order.



It appears a few sets shipped with a pair of lefts and a pair of rights. Check your order to make sure you have a left and a right. They say it's just rear slotted rotors, but check your order anyways. Instructions and illustrations on how to check is here:



http://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.ph...5&pagenumber=10



Thanks!



Daniel