I'm finishing my 20B swap into an '89 TII and have a couple questions for everyone.



One; what choices are there to actually be able to close the hood? Specifically, are there any aftermarket hoods available to accomodate this conversion or am in completely in the custom fabrication realm here? I really like the Mariah Motorsports custom hood that 3 Rotor has but....very expensive since this was a one-time deal. Would a (gasp) new Firebird hood cut up to be fab'd on to the existing hood work? I really like the way it looks with the dual ram scoops up front 8)



Second; When going to a single turbo conversion, what would be a good "street" turbo? I know a 600HP street car is really not a "true" streetable car but what would give me around 20psi boost for street gas (92 oct.) and spool up around 3K? I'm thinking something like a T78, T88 or T90 although I don't know what the A/R ratio should be.



Third; The stock front sway bar will not fit and has to be removed altogether. What aftermarket one will fit or is this another custom fabrication?

Turbo III - I just sent you an e-mail. But for the good of the Forum here's an abbreviated reply. Check out the following sites:

www.3rotor.com

http:/mazda.a-spec.ca

www.pfsupercars.com

www.k2rd.com (has a registry of 2nd Gens - one is a white 20B conversion from the S.F. Bay area)



1. Custom hood - wasn't my decision. They had already done this part.



2. Anti-sway bar was custom made. Mazdaspeed or 3rotor.com might know more about their version or aftermarkets.



3. Turbo. This could use some comment from the forum. I believe, but do some serious checking first, that the twin turbo from the 13B-REW (FD) is very similar if not identical to the 20B-REW (the production engine for the Eunos Cosmos). My understanding is that the most popular turbo for the 20B is the T04. Most of the 20Bs that come to this country or that are exported to Austrailia has the turbos stripped off of them, so this has been the solution.



Also, on the rx7club.com forum there is a user by the name of "Evil Aviator." He refers to his 20B as the money pit. He is doing most of the work himself, so he has intimate knowledge of this stuff. Please post what you find so we can all be of help to one another. Good luck - the 20B rocks!!

Actually, Scott in Florida is doing most of the work on Evil Aviator's 20B. He does have the knowledge, but while he was in the Service, Scott has been doing all the work. I've seen in it person quite a few times.



The Wolf 3D EMS comes next week I think, so the car will be finished very soon. A lot of things on that car were custom done. I'll email Scott with your questions. I don't know what turbo they have on the car, but I know it is big.



I'll post back when I get some answers.

Thanks guys, I've mailed Spin Racing before but they never replied back to me about what they've done, which I believe is Evil Aviator. If Scott is willing to fabricate an additional sway bar I'd be happy to pay him or ship my old one to him to adjust.



I'm also interested in purchasing the FMIC/turbo setup from him as well if it's "reasonable", which in my case would mean no more than $3500 for all of it...I'll do my own piping IC fabrication.

Quote from Turbo III, posted on Nov. 03 2001,18:21

if ya dont mind saying, how much do you have into the engine swap so far

Sorry Jim, can you switch it for us?



For MeanRex7, I'd really rather not say on the open 'net but you could easily buy a nice 3rd gen with a bunch of aftermarket stuff done to it for the cost.



Upgraded things done to the motor and affiliated systems are as follows so you can estimate the cost yourself with a local vendor:

motor

street port

upgraded fuel system, secondaries, regulator and pump

managment system

custom motor mounts

aftermarket radiator

custom front sway bar

you can run the stock turbos in parallel, 3Rotor is the only one I know of still running them sequentially, otherwise single turbo and IC

custom IC piping

custom exhaust

relocation of battery for IC piping

all the custom parts needed to connect everything, wiring, cutting and fabrication of the engine bay

clutch and disc

labor and time even if it's your own

custom hood



Plus any additional stuff you may want, i.e, different differential, brakes (probably a good idea now), etc. Hope that helps.

I spoke with Scott today. Here is information:



TII hood scoop may be cut inside the bonnet allowing 20B clearance. Save yen!



Scott uses T66, PFS uses T70 turbo. Both may achieve 600hp near 1 bar if the intercooler is very good. Pettit makes good 550hp with the stock turbos and street port. Australians say T04 flow not enough lbs/min for single.



Scott and Evil Aviator still working on sway bar. Also K2RD still working on sway bar.



Interesting note: Scott and Evil Aviator trained in flying college together.

Another interesting note: Scott never replied to my email asking those exact same questions. Darn him!! https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png

Quote from JerryLH3, posted on Nov. 14 2001,10:45

That is the reason for my post! Scott asked me to tell Jerry this.

Hey thanks for the turbo info. I spoke with another private individual doing a race 2nd gen 20B and he's also using a T-66...although with a much higher trim level to maximize boost. I think that's what I'll probably go with but with 1.3 trim, I'd still like to run 20psi if possible.



In addition, where did the exhaust manifold come from? Was this custom as well, I know you can get the exhaust flanges from Mazdatrix but I'd buy the manifold right from someone if possible.



K2RD told me to get back in 2-3 weeks about some of the stuff due to stuff he's got going on right now in relation to the sway bar, other stuff, etc.



For the hood, already done that, chopped the heck out of the bracing underneath and had to remove the scoop itself in order for the hood to shut so now the thermostat thing is sticking up through where the scoop was, kinda cool but not a long term solution. Keep in mind, I still have the 20B front housing, not the 13B which makes for a little bigger challenge but better cooling.

what all's needed for the conversion??

20B fit in TII hood without cutting much bracing, only cutting bottom front of IC scoop. Scott uses custom thermostat housing with 20B water pump - no hood cutting. Electric water pump also option to 13B water pump.



Sorry, no 20B turbo manifolds from Nopi yet, must custom build.



20B conversion process here:

http://www.se-rx7.com/20b/

Can you ask him if he could possibly make another custom thermostat housing. I only need one thermostat anyhow which is what I believe he did. That would solve most of the issue but the alternator bracing would still be up too high and in the way for the stock scoop, maybe with a little modding I could clip it down but still keep it functional...

Why does your alternator not fit? Scott's fit fine. Maybe your engine not mounted correctly?



Not spoken to Scott, however I believe he has not enough time to make another custom thermostat housing out of hand tools, and maybe he must price too much for many hours work. When he can afford mill, then no problem. Scott need mill, you need thermostat, maybe you make a trade deal? https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png

Well, I got the motor mounts from K2RD and they seem to fit perfectly as does the motor...? Got me. The alternator itself fits fine, it's the adjustment bracket on the right side that pokes up through where the scoop is. I'll just make my own single thermo housing this winter...how hard can it be? https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png If nothing else, I just won't run one at all...what's the difference, there's no emissions or cold start stuff on it anyway and it's a summer only car, just let it warm up for another minute before driving. Whatever, I still want a cool hood scoop to cool down the engine bay and to make the car look unique.

Well, I got the motor mounts from K2RD and they seem to fit perfectly as does the motor...? Got me. The alternator itself fits fine, it's the adjustment bracket on the right side that pokes up through where the scoop is. I'll just make my own single thermo housing this winter...how hard can it be? https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png If nothing else, I just won't run one at all...what's the difference, there's no emissions or cold start stuff on it anyway and it's a summer only car, just let it warm up for another minute before driving. Whatever, I still want a cool hood scoop to cool down the engine bay and to make the car look unique.

K2RD put a 2nd gen water pump on their 20B and it cleared the hood.

Dude, you can get a T-66 for $950 and that same core that he is using runs $995. Crispeed can make you a manifold if you don't want to.



How long did it take for K2RD to get the motor mounts to you?

I'm still not sure yet about the turbo but I was looking at the Hitman's website and now he's going with a T-76...hmm...so then I emailed Chuck at Rotary Extreme about putting on a HKS T51R Kai instead...he thinks it's way too big, he says to go with the T51R spi or something like that which is about the same size as the T-76. I can't stand turbonetics so I'll probbly go with that one although it's a little more pricey.



It took a couple days to get the motor mounts from K2RD, however, that was their last pair at the time which was in June/July and they were supposed to be making another batch a month or two after that.

Pictures, pictures. take some pictures of your projects :thumbsup:

I am...just haven't scanned them yet, but I show off my photo album incessently to the other people in my club https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png

Time to bring this thread back alive...



I got my K2RD motor mounts last week. I pulled the crap off of the engine (emissions and vacuum BS... more emissions ****). I was purchasing and Innovative Turbo GT76 ball bearing with a 1.32 undivided housing... but guess what? They dont make that housing any more. Turbonetics, Innovative turbos, Garret... none of them make a decent sized undivided housing... its either .96 or 1.71... too small or too big. Sucks ****. So, now I'm just gonna run the stock twins this year. Big turbo and Geforce tranny next year... mmmm 700 rwhp https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png

I was looking at the GT series from them as well but they were a little too pricey for me so I went with Chris from Lateshiftengineering to build me a T76 with a 1.32 exhaust housing, and a Q-trim turbine. I should be getting it next week so after the car is finally...finally done, which should be the beginning of June at this point, I'll update as to what the car is like but it should be in the 700RWHP range as well after it is broken in and tuned of course. Being nice to it should still yield around 4-500...I'm really upset of course https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png

any updates ?

Sorry Vosko...been spending time on the 20B thread on the other forum.



Turbo...went with the T-76 like I said...still waiting on it. Should get it next week, the 1.32 exhaust housing was a custom job and took longer than we expected. Also went with a P-trim? Whichever is the bigger trim between P and Q...can't remember at the moment. Also had problems with the SS manifold, the first place they ordered it from didn't ship them the correct alloy and they had to purchase from a different place.



I went with the Rotary Extreme FD-FC C-West Custom bumper they are making and I should have that within a couple weeks (end of May), so when I get it, I will do final measurements of space for the FMIC, pointless to do so now. That bumper rocks https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png Go to http://www.rotaryextreme.com and check it out.



Hood situation. I'm keeping the stock 20B front housing/water pump/alt. so I will live with the hood issues. Cooling capacity is much too important and I do not want to go with a 13B pump, even though it means custom fab'ing a hood and having to premix (mech. OMP swap as well).



Computer. Found a local vendor that is one of two guys in my state that works on the computer I have. The other was an a@@hole that works for a 'vette place. Apparently, if you don't have a 'vette, F U. So...F them. Exactly like talking to PFS and Pettit, if you don't have an FD, you suck and you're wasting their time calling them. Called Fred from Electromotive (president or something like that) and he says this guy is so smart, he helps them write software and troubleshoot and rewrite programs/maps, etc. That's good enough for me. Went to go speak with him a few times...wow. I think of myself as being a fairly intelligent and educated person (got one piece of paper to prove it https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR, but speaking with him makes you feel like you're a 5 year old talking to Einstein about physics and theories of relativity. Doesn't talk down to you, just at a really high level. Very interesting to speak with. I'll post what his name is AFTER I get my car done so no shady people know where it is getting worked on.



Therefore, the beginning of June the car is going to him to do the computer wiring, final shakedown and installation/fabrication of things I cannot do myself (mainly to do with welding), and reprogramming the TEC I prom to function as a TEC II. He will fire up the car and make sure it runs. Then I'll drive around and let the computer "learn", it will learn up to the accuracy of the narrow-band O2 sensor. Then we will tune more precisely with the extra guage I bought, a dual probe EGT with competition thermocouple probes...ouch that was expensive. I also have an A/F, fuel pressure, oil temp/pressure, and coolant temp.



Suspension. I purchased Soul Assassin's Tein HA coil-over setup from him 2 months ago but we had problems with shipping once, and now I'm still waitng on the stuff to arive...and he just left to move to Arizona two days ago. So I'm getting frustrated because it's been so long but can't wait to install it and be almost done with my suspension mods. Also did a racing beat rear sway bar. My computer guy will be doing a custom front sway bar for me so if anyone wants, he may be able to do more for cheaper...will ask and have him do it once I get pricing and $.



At this point, I'm just waiting for my stuff to come in. The car is being prepped for transport and final things are being done. It "should" be running by the 2-3rd week of June if all goes well. Worst case is that it takes until 4th of July and I'm REALLY in debt trying to finish it the expensive way...having someone else do it. It's either time or money...which one do YOU have more of? I ran out of the former before the MRR this year.



Enough info? 8)

yeah just wondering https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...DIR#>/wink.png



i'm still waiting to get my FD back after 8 months in the shop i feel your pain :P



20B conversions take forever from the few people i've talked to that had it done! https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...R#>/unsure.png

Doing the physical swap itself is not what's taking so long... The biggest problem is that you get a bunch done, then come to a point where you're like..."oh, sh!t, now I need this custom thing", or...need to decide what other thing you need, either the really cool item, or something to get you by. So then you spend a month or two talking to every shop you can, and people online to figure out what to do, then you spend the next couple months waiting for the stupid thing to actually arrive.



Looking back on the whole project now...which isn't even done yet, but I'd definitely do a few things differently in order to get it done faster. Unfortunately, most of those decisions of the stuff I wanted came from months of research on what I wanted and hooking up with the right people. Money was never really the issue (well...it was but...) mostly it was just information. It'd be a much easier ordeal if there was there was shops that did FC conversions and/or had a list in which you knew what you needed to deal with before you got into the project. You obviously have a decent idea of what needs to be done but it's always the little things https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png

racing beat is the only shop i know of that specializes in 3 rotors......

Mariah Motorsports

SR Motorsports

Marcos Acousta's shop in Texas

Pettit (3rd gen snobs)

Alamo Rotary

K2RD

Pineapple Racing

and I know there's a few aussie and NZ's out there as well. Look at Matt the Hitman's site, and 3rotor.com and they have a few links to those people.



Unfortunately, you have to sift through all the BS, opinions, and what is right for you to get what you want...then wait some more https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png Oh, and barely anyone gets back to you in a timely manner...it's not like you don't want to spend a couple thousand or anything...

hmmm yup i'm wrong oh well when i think 3rotor i think racing beat. marcos acosta's shop is in NJ MVA Racing. trust me i'm dealing with greddy direct as of right now and still waiting....

Got some more stuff done. Mounted the radiator, got the turbo/mani/wastegate, got the bumper but it's cracked, did the front swaybar by using the stock one but modifying mounting locations a little, and got bigger rims to work with the front swaybar since it created a new problem of sticking inside the wheel well. Ooops https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png