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I think most FD owners run some sort of an aftermarket EFI system... And I think its about time for us to talk about it and maybe learn something new..
I think most popular unit is Apexi PFC. And Most people got their car tuned by either Steve Kan... or upcoming BDC. I've heard good and bad things about both tuners and recently decided to learn more about it myself. I took this class called "EFI 101" (www.efi101.com). Its an 2 day class and they teach you the basics of tuning ($495 for the class). Was it worth it?? My personal opinion, NO! I did learn... so I can't say I didn't learn anything. But what I've learned is mostly about piston engines and when you ask them about rotary engine, they say its, "trial and error" (dah??). So, if you have an EFI system, Post here what you have and what you know... If you have a question, Post here and let see what some of the forum members here know. |
i think generally the piston engine theory translates to the rotary. the rotary has the timing split between the plugs (or not), and we run em a little richer on boost, to help cool things, but the basics are the same.
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I agree that the basics are the same. But what I'm having problem is the limitation and trial and error window seems to be smaller with rotaries. But To be honest, I'm just starting to learn about this stuff..
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Originally Posted by herblenny' post='844564' date='Nov 8 2006, 12:30 PM
I agree that the basics are the same. But what I'm having problem is the limitation and trial and error window seems to be smaller with rotaries. But To be honest, I'm just starting to learn about this stuff.. yeah, trial is a bad answer, when they are charging you $450 for a class.... we got to play with a non turbo haltech car a couple years ago, that was a good experience because you have to really screw up the tuning for it to pop. thats why the power fc is nice because the stock map is really good. with the haltechs you have to spend hours to get the car to start nicely, and idle etc etc |
Originally Posted by j9fd3s' post='844580' date='Nov 8 2006, 01:18 PM
yeah, trial is a bad answer, when they are charging you $450 for a class.... Exactly! When I'm paying $500 + a weekend to learn, I don't want to learn that its all about trial and error. not only that, they pretty much told me in order to tune correctly, I need a load bearing dyno... The second part (the advance class) is all about learning how to use the load bearing dyno (for $1500). https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683358.gif https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683358.gif I also agree with you about PFC.. I'm going to start learning more about it and hopefully get better understanding of timing and such.. I'm kind of prepared in that I have a spare engine just in case my trial and error doesn't turn out positive https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.gif |
Originally Posted by herblenny' post='844582' date='Nov 8 2006, 01:45 PM
Exactly! When I'm paying $500 + a weekend to learn, I don't want to learn that its all about trial and error. not only that, they pretty much told me in order to tune correctly, I need a load bearing dyno... The second part (the advance class) is all about learning how to use the load bearing dyno (for $1500). https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683358.gif https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683358.gif I also agree with you about PFC.. I'm going to start learning more about it and hopefully get better understanding of timing and such.. I'm kind of prepared in that I have a spare engine just in case my trial and error doesn't turn out positive https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.gif ive got an apex seal retaining tucan, bought it in 2001, havent had an engine failure yet. the load bearing dyno thing, i think is so you can tune ALL the map, it really is the best way to do things, but few of us have one.... |
Running Power FC.
Tuned by Steve Kan. Someone else tried to tune it once and it sucked. Reloaded Steve's map. Prior to Steve's map, had a map from RX7store which wasn't all that hot - aggressive timing and more resembling a T78 map than a map for twins. Some more knowledgeable people said worse things about it... Kinda cool that I can say something negative about Rx7store and not get banned. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.gif What do I know?? Enough to try and have a knowlegeable tuner like Steve give me a good map so that I can at least have a good starting point to learn from should I care to do so. |
herblenny don't feel too bad about the cash I took a class too and got up and left after the instructor tried to convince the group that tuning a carb cannot add better full effiency for a carbureted vehicle and that intake and or exhaust do the same as well as rob horsepower. someone made the argument that some exhaust may cause flow issues and tried to make sense of it but he responded that factory exhaust is the most powerful system any vehicle can have. I promptly pushed in my chair left and demanded my money back.
it can really piss you of when you go in excited to learn and some dumbass gives you answers like the one u recieved. but yea I use the power fc too |
Well I don't feel so bad about not being able to go now since you said it wasn't really worth it.
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Originally Posted by black93fd' post='844635' date='Nov 9 2006, 04:56 AM
herblenny don't feel too bad about the cash I took a class too and got up and left after the instructor tried to convince the group that tuning a carb cannot add better full effiency for a carbureted vehicle and that intake and or exhaust do the same as well as rob horsepower. someone made the argument that some exhaust may cause flow issues and tried to make sense of it but he responded that factory exhaust is the most powerful system any vehicle can have. I promptly pushed in my chair left and demanded my money back. it can really piss you of when you go in excited to learn and some dumbass gives you answers like the one u recieved. but yea I use the power fc too Which EFI101 class did you attend?? Who was your instructor?? Did they give you your money back?? |
im waiting for the guys from, i think, mech-tech/sakura racing(i might have the school mixed up) to come again. supposedly its very good and only in FL, though...maybe ill take a lil vacation.
just found out they come to philly also. great. |
it wasn't an EFI class it was an automotive school in oklahoma a vocational tech. the instructor was a moron but there were many others there that knew their stuff. The dumbass instructor's name was Ron Anderson and I didn't get my money back no. This was back in the day do you have any recomendations for any good efi101 classes in the midwest with any knowledge of rotaries? I would like to take a EFI class but I don't want to drop a few hundred dollars on another dissapointment.
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Not to derail the class based derailment...
Question for everyone with the Power FC and just the keypad. I'll probably be picking up the datalogger soonish, but for now looking for a little advice to try to pass emissions. The car will almost pass on the default maps dumped in by SR Motorsports when I bought the computer. Unfortunately I'm running 2-3 PPM too high on the hydrocarbons. Yes. 2-3 PPM. Legal limit around here is 150 PPM, and the closest non-passing test was 151 PPM. Washington emissions put the car on a roller, and you have to accelerate and hold at a certain speed - been a while since I did the test, want to say it's 25 mph. I know it was right near 3k on the tach, close enough that I began to wonder if closed loop or open loop would be better - I could probably go just over 3k if needed, or stay under 3k and stay in the speed window requested by the test. I'm fairly certain that if I'm running into higher HC readings, I should lean out the a/f ratio some, to drop the amount of unburned gas. Any other suggestions? (beyond the normal clean air filter, new plugs, etc) Just looking for ideas. Probably going to be pulling the FD out of the garage for the first time in over a year soon, which will mean getting emissions done, so that I can get current tabs. |
Lowering your HC, you could lean it out. But be very careful. Also you could try ethanol.
Originally Posted by black93fd' post='844680' date='Nov 9 2006, 12:29 PM
it wasn't an EFI class it was an automotive school in oklahoma a vocational tech. Jesus! you made it sound like you took an EFI class.. not some carb/general automobile class. |
Originally Posted by Sivart_R1' post='844686' date='Nov 9 2006, 03:44 PM
Not to derail the class based derailment... Question for everyone with the Power FC and just the keypad. I'll probably be picking up the datalogger soonish, but for now looking for a little advice to try to pass emissions. The car will almost pass on the default maps dumped in by SR Motorsports when I bought the computer. Unfortunately I'm running 2-3 PPM too high on the hydrocarbons. Yes. 2-3 PPM. Legal limit around here is 150 PPM, and the closest non-passing test was 151 PPM. Washington emissions put the car on a roller, and you have to accelerate and hold at a certain speed - been a while since I did the test, want to say it's 25 mph. I know it was right near 3k on the tach, close enough that I began to wonder if closed loop or open loop would be better - I could probably go just over 3k if needed, or stay under 3k and stay in the speed window requested by the test. I'm fairly certain that if I'm running into higher HC readings, I should lean out the a/f ratio some, to drop the amount of unburned gas. Any other suggestions? (beyond the normal clean air filter, new plugs, etc) Just looking for ideas. Probably going to be pulling the FD out of the garage for the first time in over a year soon, which will mean getting emissions done, so that I can get current tabs. http://71.102.125.165/rx7/index.htm |
Originally Posted by treceb' post='844726' date='Nov 9 2006, 07:18 PM
lotsa good info here. towards the bottom is a "how to" for emissions. http://71.102.125.165/rx7/index.htm Great link! |
Originally Posted by treceb' post='844726' date='Nov 9 2006, 09:18 PM
lotsa good info here. towards the bottom is a "how to" for emissions. http://71.102.125.165/rx7/index.htm https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/bowdown.gif Thanks! |
yeah didnt mean to thread jack but i figured everyone could benefit from the info...
and dont thank me, thank brian, all i did was save/post the link. |
sorry didn't mean for it to look like I knew anything about EFI tuning, I do want to learn more about it. does anyone know any classes in the midwest? who can teach how to do a large amount of tuning. I've got the pwr-fc with data-logit and I do have access to a dyno from a local shop but I need the knowledge.
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If you don't know much, I think EFI101.com will provide you with good start ($495).
If you want to learn more about PFC and if you have a datalogit, you should know about the datalogit message board... There are ton of info. Also, PFC subforum on RX7club will tell you quite abit about PFC.. Also Chuck sells nice write up about PFC ($35). I would share, but its unfair to do so since he spent many many hours writing this. But to be honest, if you are to stick with one set up or not planning to make ton of power, I recommend getting someone to tune for you (Steve Kan, BDC, Claudio, Etc). I'm wanting to do this myself because I have 2 FD, going to change turbos, engines, different ECU, etc etc. |
thanks for the info I will definetly check that out. I'm finishing up my single setup and plan on takng a it to a 20b maybe in a year or two so yea the tuning should be done by a professional but I wanted to do slight changes and maybe work my way up to a reputable level sometime in the future.
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Originally Posted by Sivart_R1' post='844686' date='Nov 9 2006, 12:44 PM
Not to derail the class based derailment... Question for everyone with the Power FC and just the keypad. I'll probably be picking up the datalogger soonish, but for now looking for a little advice to try to pass emissions. The car will almost pass on the default maps dumped in by SR Motorsports when I bought the computer. Unfortunately I'm running 2-3 PPM too high on the hydrocarbons. Yes. 2-3 PPM. Legal limit around here is 150 PPM, and the closest non-passing test was 151 PPM. Washington emissions put the car on a roller, and you have to accelerate and hold at a certain speed - been a while since I did the test, want to say it's 25 mph. I know it was right near 3k on the tach, close enough that I began to wonder if closed loop or open loop would be better - I could probably go just over 3k if needed, or stay under 3k and stay in the speed window requested by the test. I'm fairly certain that if I'm running into higher HC readings, I should lean out the a/f ratio some, to drop the amount of unburned gas. Any other suggestions? (beyond the normal clean air filter, new plugs, etc) Just looking for ideas. Probably going to be pulling the FD out of the garage for the first time in over a year soon, which will mean getting emissions done, so that I can get current tabs. if its only out by 3 ppms i dunno if id even touch the map, it depends on the co a little too. but new plugs/air filter/oil make sure the thing is HOT (beat the snot out of it for 20minutes or so), and that should be your 3 ppm's. if you need more, find out what cell that is on the map, and lean it just a little. cats are wierd, and the engine interacts with them, sometimes the cat works better with a richer mixture, but it sound like 3ppms, you want to lean it just a bit... |
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