Just had a clutch job done. The car developed a bad vibration in the shifter when I step on the accelerator to put it into gear. My mechanic says one blade is running too rich and the plugs in that blade are black. He said that he prove this by the plugs from one blade shows ok. He says the vibration is from the engine but the engine was fine before it went in for the clutch job. I think he did collateral damage when he did the clutch job. Now the car is not drivable. He spend 2 hours trying to track down the problem now says he does not work on rx7 enough to solve the problem. Does anyone know what would cause this problem. Grounding strap? Help.... :Now I do not want him to continue working on the car. Does anyone know a good RX-7 Garage in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada I can take the car to? angry:

That sounds pretty odd, how does it idle, besides the vibration? It would not be a groudning strap. Maybe counterweight or flywheel issue... it could also be that it isn't running properly, but you should be bale to check that out by pulling plugs or simply listening to it idle.

Yeah I would guess that they forgot to put the counterweight back



did you upgrade to a lightweight flywheel? or is everything still stock?

The clutch and flywheel is stock. They pull the new clutch again and check the new clutch that was put in and say they were fine. In turns of idle, it seemed idle ok to me. What are the counter weights?

Counter weight sounds like a likely cause. It seems to idle ok. As soon as it revs up the vibration can be felt on the shifter. The flywheel is stock.

Just check with the garage again. They said the counter weight is in. They also still believe it is a problem with one of the blade. They said that one blade's plugs are white while the other blade's plugs are black. It idles ok but when they give it a bit of gas, blue smoke comes out. They believe the vibration comes out from the engine and one Blade is running too rich. They told me that it must has something to do with the fuel injector that is injecting too much fuel into that one blade because the plugs are black. I don't trust them now.

One more thing that was done while the clutch is being changed was that the cat was changed to a high flow Ntec converter. I do not think it has anything to do with that. The Garage also stated that compression on the blade is fine.

Have you checked the plugs

The plugs was cleaned. But they said it was fouled again within 10 minutes.

ok so maybe the plugs are causing the problem, but the car was running fine before the clutch job right? The 2 can not be related, so in plain english they screwed something up. Have them start looking for the obvious things, a wire or harness that got pinched between the engine and trans, and ofcourse if they did'nt use an engine support while the trans is out, the engine will move alot, this could have casued a broken/diconnected electical connection, or a hose to pop off.

Just a few ideas off the top of my head

turbovr6 has good suggestions. Sorry about the shitty luck, those god damn rookie mechanics, there are so many of them and so few bullets.

I only let Rob @ Pineapple work on my sev-e, if i can't do it myself. clutch jobs are easy, with the right tools and a little practice you can do one in your sleep. I would absolutly chew the first shop out, find a more RX-7 specific shop, and shove the bill from the second shop directly up the first shop's ass, this kind of **** really pisses me off.



Good luck,



James

Turbor6 suggestion makes a lot of sense. I got hold of experienced rx-7 guy to go to the garage and take a look. I do not believe these guys used a engine support which the service manual calls for. I actually started to read into the service manual when this happened. Right now, I just want to take the car out of that garage and then once I fix the problem, I will be taking them to the small claims court if they do not refund my money. Will post result on the problem found. I am mad as hell. They actually try to make it sound like I had this problem before. I am in the midst of documenting events. If anyone knows of a good rx-7 garage in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, let me know. I spoke to the Mazda dealer in Ottawa, they also sounds pretty scary.

Latest saga on this problem. The experienced RX-7 guy and I went to the garage and check out the car. This guy used to work as a RX-7 mechanic but not anymore. Immediately, he indicated that this is not an Engine problem but a driveline type of vibration. The Garage owner argued with him and still believe the problem is in the engine. The Garage owner basically want to wash his hands on this car now. Found out that the Clutch part he used is from Ottawa Clutch and is not a Mazda part. According to the Garage owner he did thousands of Clutch job before and even his own Farari with Ottawa Clutch. He claims the Clutch are not re-builds, they are new. He also said that the flywheel counter weight is not removable and the my RX-7 guy believe that is the case also. I took the car to a local Mazda dealer just to see what they can do. My new found RX-7 guy is no longer in the mechanic business and do not have access to hoist. The local Mazda dealer service manager took one look and stated that either the Flywheel is not true or the clutch/pressure plate(?) assembly is not centered properly to the flywheel. He also believe the vibration is not from the engine. He stated that even if one rotor blade not working it would not have this much vibration. He was supprised that the Garage is trying to wash his hand on this problem. I went back to the original garage and want them to be reponsible in fixing this. I told them if they do not, I will take legal action. The owner of the Garage is not there, so I told the Mechanic (did I say Mechanic?) that they are responsible, and if they do not, I will take legal action. It is now my strong believe that the problem is in the flywheel or the clutch unit they put in. So, my question to the experts out there is that:



1) Should I get them to put in a new flywheel or can the old flywheel be checked for balance and true. This was the original stock unit but was resurfaced by Ottawa Clutch.



2) Should I get them to put in a new Mazda stock Clutch?



3) Is there a bearing somewhere that could cause this type of problem if it does not meet spec?



4) Any other suggestions?



I am now fighting mad!

Ok ready.... in order



1. if you send a flywheel to be machined they shave off like .008 mm from the surface to give the new clutch disk a nice smooth even surface to mate with. The only way this could effect balance if if the flywheel was not mounted to the lathe correctly. There is a tolerance level of the minimum thickness the surface of the flywheel can be. So it's your choice to either get a new one or have them send that one out again to be checked.balanced,resurfaced.

2. Many aftermarket clucthes are good, some are ****, unfortunatly I've never heard of your company they used. Personally, I would put a mazda clutch set in, unless the price differance was tremendous and you can't afford it.

3. The pilot bearing is the only bearing that comes into play when you talk vibration. I've never heard of one causing a vibration, horrible noises yes, vibration, no.

4. final thoughts....

Now that you have it narrowed down to a drivetrain vibration, you know either they screwed up your flywheel, the parts they put in were defective, or the parts were put in wrong.



Fight Fight Fight, If they refuse to do it, have the dealer do it, have them document their findings, and then sue the pants off the idiots at that shop!

Local dealer now would not touch this since they does not want to be involved. So, After I cool down a bit (still planning legal action) and thinking through this, I am left with the following choices:



1) Get the local deal to do the job, pay for it. Best case senario -it solves the problem (most likely), sue the pants of the other Garage. Worst case senario: it still vibrates then I am hosted - the dealer say they would not garantee the work since they may not be able to solve what the other garage did.



2) Get the original Garage to either resurfing the flywheel again or change flywheel (preferably the way to go here - I probably need to pay for the delta) , put in Mazda part. Best case senario - works and I am happy. Never go back to the shop again. Report them to better business bureau. Bad part about this is that I do not trust these jokers. Worst case senario - still not fixed. Garage is then probably wash their hands on the problem.



3) Make the shope responsible. Get them to solve this. Probability of this works out is not good. They are not familiar with the RX-7 environment and can go completely of some tangent.



4) Get them to change the clutch and resurfing the flywheel from Ottawa Clutch. I do not like this since I do not know how good or shitty their stuff is. It may be that their part is just not right.



5) Walk away and re-do the job myself. I have done clutch job years ago. But do not have access to hoist. Sue the bastards. Probably not a good idea. The Garage would just wash their hands, and said something I did solved the problem and it was not their fault. If I go this way, probably go with racing aftermarket parts.



I think option #2 is probably the way to go even though I do not trust them but dealer is probably not much better. My take on this is that the Garage is a bolting in mechanical component type of shop and the problem is in Ottawa Clutch. They probably has no way to check the balance. Taking the clutch assembly apart again is not going to find the problem. Most likely the problem will be solved by using new flywheel/mazda clutch part.



- Question to the forum gurus - is there any possible way to install the clutch/pressure plate assembly off centered? Is their any adjustment on installation they have to do. From what I remembered from years ago, this was not possible, also from what I remembered from reading the manual is that it is not. Everything should be keyed. Is the above correct?



Still fighting mad.. just cool down sufficiently to think.

You don't need a hoist to do a clutch. Just a jack and a couple jackstands....

yeah everything goes one way. you could have something off center if you are a butcher and just plow the screws in with an impact drive :(



Most likly defective parts, or a bad job on the flywheel/



I still say have it dne somewhere else with mazda parts then sue.



you can do it on the ground. need a jack, jackstands, and a strong bar to go across to each fender with a chain to hold up the motor, or you could prop up the motor with some wood blocks or a secod jack

I threaten to sue in writting. Do not want to spend money on a new flywheel yet just to prove they screw it up. They are now agreeing the prolem most likely is between flywheel and bad part. They are now going to to check the vibration with the flywheel but without the clutch assembly to isolate the problem area down (I had to tell them that, duh...). If the flywheel is off balanced, then they will send it back to Ottawa Clutch to recheck balance. If the problem is trace down to not the flywheel but bad clutch assembly, I will then ask them to change to Mazda part. At least now they are now know that I am not taking this laying down and serious about taking legal action. Will keep forum updated. Thanks to all who has offer their input and help.

good job, glad to hear it's starting to work out for you

make sure they put a new pilot bearing and seal in too.

How is it going? They getting anything done? Does it vibrate all the time, only at a certain rpm, or just at idle? Does it vibrate when the clutch is pressed or does it stop when you press the clutch? When you change gears or when you first take off does it grab real hard or is it driving nice and normal like you other clutch was?



Does it make any sound at all or just vibrate?



When they mounted the clutch to the flywheel did they tq it down to spec or impact it down real hard?



STEPHEN

Here is the scoop. After chasing the original garage and threatening to sue. They agree to take the car back. Cannot believe they try to tell me it is something other than the work they did. The clutch assembly and flywheel was send back to the clutch supplier. I called the clutch supplier and he said they believe a balancing weight on the pressure plate was knocked off and supplied a new one. He said that these balancing weight are riveted on and if they get knocked off (either from the factory, delivery, or installation), it is hard to tell. I asked them to balance test it before it is send out to be re-installed. Once the new clutch assembly is installed, the problem went away.



New question to the pros on the forum: I am getting a noise now and it seems to be from the release bearing. When I push the clutch in, the noise disappears. I went back to the garage (cannot believe I am doing this), and got the clutch suppler on line. He told me that it was common to have release bearing noise after new install. They need a couple of weeks to set in place. They agree to service it if it does not go away in 3 weeks. I just do not trust these guys anymore. Comments please. I do not cherrish the idea of going back to them.



This clutch job has taken almost two month. It started in end of May, after this garage installed the clutch, he claim that the pipe on the cat converter is bent and it is causing a torque on the motor and causing the chasis vibration. Since I do know that the cat was emptied last year, and I need a new one to pass the new pollution law coming into effect here, I agreed to get a new aftermarket one. Waited 3 wks to get delivered. Once it was installed, he told me the car was ready to be picked up. His word was, the vibration is much better now, give it a try. As soon as I started the card, I told him that it was not acceptable. Then he try to blame it on my motor being rough. Make the story short, got 2 mechanics + mazda service mgr to comment, wrote him a formal letter stating that if he does not take resposibility, I am taking legal action. Then, he agree to take a look. Did tell him that he is bearing all cost to fix this. Once he have the new clutch back, his mechanic has to get his appendix out. Then, I have to chase him to get his other mechanics to work on it. I think he is still taking in cars and keep me in queue until he has free time. Finally, pin him down on a date that he will work on the car. The only reason that I am not putting his name and location all over the net is that I may still want to take him to court and sue his ass off. I am still so steamed.

I get that noise in a few cars, but it doesn't seem to hurt anything.

umm

I have installed hundereds of clutches in many cars over the years, what they told you is BS. The throwout/release bearing should not make any noise if it is new. it's a bearing, it does'nt need to seat, it only goes one way. Think about it, when does a bearing make noise? either dirty or worn.

I dunno sounds fishy to me. On a side note, if the noise stops when you push the clutch pedal in it's not neccisarily that bearing it could be a bearing in the trans. Did those mechanical marvels think to check the oil level in the trans after they did the job?

I had a similar humming sound in my convertible, but when I put the transmission in the 91 coupe it seemed to stop. I put some extra grease on the TO bearing, but that's all. The TO bearing doesn't do anything unless the clutch is pushed in. So I don't know what the exact cause was. Maybe it had something to do with the pilot bearing?

Ok, we know when they pulled the trans to do the clutch they had to drain the fluid, at least in the back portion of the trans. Did they refill it? If so what did they use??? Maybe they used some pos fluid that you would put in a honda. I could hear a slight sound similar to what you described in my clutch till I put in some good syn fluid.



Try changing the fluid out and see how it goes.



STEPHEN

i didnt have any noise last time i put one in, have pulled engine twice since then too and put same clutch back. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...R#>/mellow.png

I agree that checking the oil level sounds like a good think to do. Will do that to see if that stops the noise.

I would drain it or have them drain it and replace with a good synthetic



STEPHEN