Am I asking for alot of headaches attempting the install of a 1993 13b TT motor/trans into a 1987 TII ?? Will it 'slip right in', mount for mount ?? TIA !!





Z3

Yes, No.

You will need to fab your own mounts, and either rewire the car using the 93 harness, or go standalone EMS.

i can't see any point in trying to use the FD trans as opposed to a T2 trans either

there's info on this swap, mazdaspeed7 is doing it. i believe its in the rotary engine forum, might try searching tho as im not positive what forum its in.



kevin.

unless you have one sitting around, pass this project up, its not a drop right in thing

Why does everyone say that? I dont think its any worse really than a RE swap.



Lets hear some specific reasons why not to use an REW? Sure, the stock twins suck ass, but the block itself has more bracing in critical areas than the RE, 13BT, etc. The rotors are a bit thinner on the face, and more prone to denting under detonation, but detonation often requires a rebuild anyways.



You have to rewire or use a standalone with any swap. Whats the big deal here?



Im selling the mounts if youre not able to make your own, so there goes that argument if you cant make your own.



The TII trans bolts right up using TII clutch stuff, the counterweight is the same betwen s5 and s6(REW), so again this is no more complicated than an RE swap.



The water pump inlet/outlet are in shitty places, but you could just use an FC pump(which most people do with RE swaps anyways), or cut and reweld the lower tube of the water pump and use flexible coolant lines, or just use a 3rd gen radiator. Again, there are options that arent any worse than the typical RE swap.



And a 3rd gen downpipe comes VERY close to the fc location, so not much work there. A muffler shop would have no problem tying a 3rd gen downpipe into the rest of an fc exhaust.



Heres the link to my swap. Im doing a lot of other things not necessary for the swap, like the radiator, oil coolers, and a lot of things yet to be seen. The majority of the swap is mounts, wiring, and plumbing, but thats typical of ANY swap. Personally, i think the engine fits very nicely, and I dont see why its so uncommon and so hated on.

its not that it cant be done, its just not as simple as dropping it in thats all, he asked if it would slip right in mount for mount

That is true, but any swap short of a n/a-->TII swap wont bolt up using stock components. But as far as swaps in general go, the REW is no more complicated than any other swap, and has come distinct advantages as far as im concerned.

see the one thing i dont like is everyone says the fd's rear plate is so much stronger. thats cause the mounts are there, it has to support the whole engine, of course itll be stronger, but all that extra strength goes into holding the engine up.



kevin.

So rebuild an FD engine and use a TII centreplate, and bam, bolt on REW (engine mounts anyways). No more cracking irons?

Isnt the intake runner different on the TII and REW? Bolts different?

I thought there was a reason you cant do it but I dont remembr why

that would probably be the "strongest" motor, in terms of cracking plates. the REW rear plate, as i said, is only "stronger" because all the weight of the motor lays on it. Plus due to the mount being at the rear there's a lot more leverage on it too which increases how hevay the load feels.



kevin.

How many fd motors do you see cracking irons?

haha yeah yall talk like cracking irons is a common occurance, i say just do it or shut up!

none. s4's only crack when theyre tuned bad anyway.



but structurally the strongest motor would be what colin described.



so if you plan on running on a horrible tune then it would be the choice for you.



we're not really talking about cracked irons, just waltzed off topic is all.



kevin.

Well anyways if you goto the trouble of a rebuild, you can have an "FD" motor with FC mounts using the TII centreplate





That's really what I meant.. The cracking iron comment was for Kevman

FC and FD intake ports dont line up. Dont expect to be able to use that combination without a custom intake manifold.





As for kevin's comment about it having to support extra weight, I disagree. To start with, the majority of the force is vertical, from the weight of the engine and gravity and bumps while driving. The extra bracing isnt in that direction, its in the direction that would oppose the block twisting under heavy load. If you really want to get technical, the vast majority of the load will be compression and tension loads on the tension bolts, bottom and top respectively. The shear loads on the dowel pins are well below the structural limits of both the dowels and the irons.



Ive personally been the witness to a s4 iron breaking in the dowel pin area, and Ive broken a S5 iron in the dowel pin area.

When you tear down 13B-BREW and 13BT side by side you will see the differences. Thats why I am building for my FC.

so you're telling me theres no reinforcement for the fact that the leverage on the engine mounting location is probably nearly double, nevermind the fact that a huge set of heavy ass twin turbos are now hanging off as well?



It's not like the brew was making 150hp more then the other blocks, hell if you put an s5 turbo on it i doubt itd make much more power then the s5. i really dont think they were sitting there saying "damn a lot of our stock cars' motors are being twisted apart and blown up by our regular customers"



I mean if youre mazda are you gonna worry about some car guy who is 1 out of a million, who if he does manage to increase the power to manage to create a load strong enough to produce a shearing effect and cracking the motor would be violating the warranty anyway. Or are you gonna be worried about the old guy dropping $40k on his brand new FD to drive on sundays and store in his garage?



Sure you can say they redeveloped it due to their racing program, but cracked irons = bad tuning. Im sure theyd fix their tuning before going out and redesigning what im sure is far from a cheap piece of the motor.



I mean im not saying youre wrong, maybe youre right whatever. I'm just saying there's no tech data on it that you can show where mazda says "it was reinforced to prevent cracking in the dowel pin area". So all we can do is sit here and say what it *LOOKS* like to us.



I feel it makes more sense for it to be reinforced for the extra weight due to the effect of leverage and the fact that the turbo setup is probably more then double the weight of the old s5 setup. Sure maybe when they went in there to fix that problem they increase strength all around, but i dont believe that was their main goal.



my opinion.



kevin.

You don't need technical data. You can SEE that they put more iron in the dowel pin area of the FD irons. What other purpose would they need? https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png

The problem is your mounts are not design like stock ones.

You end up with a twisting force on the mounts, and this is never a good thing.

Stock mounts are designed to handle a straight, downwards force.





-Ted

http://fc3spro.com

Any flexing of my mounts will cause the inside edge of the mounting "cups" to contact the oil pan mounting flange on the center iron, transferring the weight to the center iron.