I realize that my car still isn't working but i'm looking at some of my goals for when the drag season opens up. First off i'm getting everything fixed and i'm ordering all the parts i need to actually fix it.



Anyways, when our dragstrip opens back up in a few months i want to be able to run low 13s consistently. I'll have a 3inch TID, TB mod, stock TMIC, walbro 255, FCD, full 3 inch turboback exhaust by then. I don't have anywhere the amount of money i'd need for a completely new turbo upgrade so i was considering a hybrid turbo. It fits all of my short and mid-term goals and should provide enough HP to keep me happy for a while. What i wanna know is how much would upgrading my turbo cost on average and what kind of compressor would i want? I was thinking of calling the cheapturbo people sometime this week and asking them but i wanted some additional opinions. Also what kind of fuel system would i need? Stock injectors are probably getting maxed out at around this point i'm guessing. So would i need new injectors and if so would 720 secondaries suffice? How much would a set of these probably cost? Would i need some sort of piggyback fuel computer too such as an s-afc at this point as well?



Lastly, could i hit low 13s on the stock s5 turbo? If so how much psi would i have to run with it and how long would it last at that amount? What kind of hp should it put down as well?



Thanks.

i also would like to know the avg results of these mods because i'm going to have a similar setup (s5 turbo) but i would also would like add to the mix (sorry dramon) what kind of power i could squeeze out with an e6k.

If you are a good driver, you should. Vosko was able to do this with just an intake, downpipe, modified ecu to increase fuel and remove fuel cut and stock mufflers. Lot's of boost!!

****, kraig his 13.2 on his s4 ... his mods are in his sig. (iluvmy88)



and i dont have an official timeslip of my low 13 runs, but i do know that i was beating confirmed 12.9-7 cars on the streets. And that was last year with a stock s5 block, stock turbo, stock catback, stock ecu, and a stereo system (amp, subs, etc).



mod: fmic, fcd, walbro 255, no ps/ac, 5$ manual boost cntroller, and 15psi leaking down to 12psi



Granted the engine blew up after a few months of that torture. But thats because i didnt take car of the engine, it pinged like crazy some nights. I didnt really care because i was getting a more .. race prepped..engine soon.



lastly i'd like to say, if i tossed it on a dyno and actually tuned it for 15psi and not been a goober about it. It would have run on 15psi for quite awhile. That little turbo will put out power at 15psi, anything above that and i saw decreased performance.. lol

Theres hitting 13's then there is hitting 13's relaibly



Upgrades to consider for relaibility



1) Clutch, the stock style organic units will not take this kind of punishment for long, especially a high mileage unit, I would suggest a heavy duty clutch kit, nothing specific because each individual has their goals and wallet.



2) Fuel management, 13's are easy enough to do but will require you to manage the fuel, you can get the S-AFC and it will work for 13's but noone is ever happy with a specific power level for long. You should save up and invest in a stand alone management, cost and brand are determined by the availibility to have it tuned, and your wallet, A MoTeC is not a good idea if noone can give you support and your goal is only 13's but if you plan on playing the rotary game for a long time, the standalone is your best purchase in the long run.



3) Turbo, you are going to need as much for the turbo as a decent standalone management, I would suggest a TO4E kit in your case, the turbo is more than ready to handle the power level you need, is a common turbo and will not break the bank for the power it produces. Garret also has a large market support, think of it as the chevy 350 of the turbo world, parts, rebuild kits and support for this turbo are extremely good.



4) Tires, these will effect times more than just about any modification you have on the car. If your looking for a daily driver tire for the occasional romp at the dragstrip, the Nitto 455 is not a bad choice. If your looking for a drag specific tire for every weekend a set of ET streets are a little better for the big fun. A set of cheap cooper all season radials my do you fine on the streets, but will do little for you at the local track.





Just remember, you are looking to pull the max amount of power and reliability out of every component in a competition event. Be ready when things break, and they will! Do not be surprised when an engine blows, or a transmission breaks, an axle stub breaks or your tires last 10 passes and need replacement. This is all part of pushing a car to its limits.



Guys that have seen the components I have for my car call me Mr. Overkill, I have a clutch that will handle way more power than I will have, my fuel system is on the verge of pumping more than a gas pump at one time into my motor, My turbo is large enough to swallow bunnies, squirells, and small children. My intercooler weighs more than most weight reduction options (A/C power steering, and air pump removal combined) And I have enough spark power to light a small village for a week going through my Electromotive coil system. But I know that this overkill I have built into my car will handle the power levels I want for reliability on my car, and is heavy duty enough that I will not need to replace components all the time. I already know I will blow an engine, possibly 2, or even 3 this season. I am pushing my motor to the edge most of the time I will be driving it, so if it does blow, i will not be upset, I will not cry, and I will not worry about it, because it is part of playing this game.





For those of you reading this, check out the motorsports forum prior to going to the track, I have written a pretty decent guide on drag racing in the drag racing subsection. Feel free to ask Drag specific questions in that area.



Good Luck, and may the red light god not shine on you...

If you plan on running the stock turbo at higher psi(12+), it won't last long. Sure vosko made it to 13s, but after a few runs the turbo was dying.

then he got the hybrid https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png

Thanks camel, good writeup.



A few things though. First off i forgot to add i have an ACT S/S clutch, so i'm hoping to be fine in that area. Anyways how much would a hybrid cost usually? granted the turbo i have is in good shape. And lastly you have me a bit nervous now on the whole engine blowing thing. I don't plan on really driving my car on the street too much but autoxing and dragging it whenever i have the chance. I really doubt i can afford a new engine and now i'm a bit nervous as to how long my engine will last. I got a car with a fresh rebuild so i wouldnt have to replace my engine constantly but it looks like i'll still end up replacing it on a regular basis anyways? Oh yeah i have an upgraded cooling system too and a/c, p/s, emissions removed as well.

if you're a little careful the motor should last a long time, ie dont overheat it, dont run it at the ragged edge. camels willing to blow a motor looking for that last 10th of a second, you might not be (i'm not) just make sure you have enough fuel and a good ic will help here too

Ragged edge?

there are 2 things that will kill your motor racing.

1. overheating it. you wanna keep the water temps and oil temps in a safe range



2. detonation. basically this is caused by either running a lot of timing, or running lean or having intake temps too hot, or a combonation of the 3. in order to have a saftey margin the factory runs it rich, and with safe timing, they give up some power this way though. the camel is willing to run with no safety margin, leaner = more power, but it also makes detonation occur easier. same stoy with timing, more = more power, but detonation will happen sooner.

the camel is hope to find that line where the engine lives, and he makes max power, but hes also expecting to loose a couple engines finding that line. he is building a race car after all

I've seen a friend run mid 13s with a 86 Base, converted to S5 engine, tranny, hubs, rear end, rear subframe and moving the stock intercooler to front mount with ABS piping. SAFC, FCD, FD pump and that's it.



He used no name Canadian Tire (Autozone) brand name tires at 20 psi.



You don't need a hybrid to pull it off.

I was running 13's with only:



thunderfabrications 3'' dp/mp

walbro

MBC set to 10 pounds

fcd



At 11 pounds my a/f numbers with just the walbro were in the mid 11's. Mid 13's need bolt on's and decent driving, not a stand alone and a to4e https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...>/rolleyes.gif

Well the difference is reliable or not....

i think its realiable. The comment of the turbo puking out is 1/2 correct.



Any original turbo is atleast 13 years old. That is quite old for a part that has almost no tolerance.

i call camel mr overkill all the time.



dont let him hypnotize you or else youll watch your wallet slowly empty as he reccommends places and things to buy LMAO.



damn you for hijacking "my path".



but anyway when building a car i think its more fun to do things you're own way, thats why i dont set goals. I do what i want and what will work, whatever i reach i decide was my goal the whole time. I ENJOY building my car and repairing it, so i guess my real goal is to have fun while going fast?



kevin.

i set goals based upon the class i run in autox and soloI

my old T2 was fast. it had 150k miles on the motor and everything else. hell i dunno many people that do 13's on true stock size street tires. i was amazed as anyone else when i did it. i still miss that car

You will get a second chance soon!, i can't believe it was so fast.

I think the key to vosko's quick times were his awesome launches. I recall reading old threads with his t2 and he ran 13's but his trap wasn't all that impressive. Not to discredit vosko, it's apparent he can blow up anything https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...R#>/tongue.png



To be more related to the thread, if you can't get a 13 second et in a stock turbo FC you should have the car taken away from you. I hardly doubt 10-11 pounds on the stock turbo is stressing the car to unreliable points. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/BURNOUT.gif

Ok, I posted my book earlier as suggestions, not a must do...



The suggestions were for reliability, not that this cannot be done on a stock S5 turbo, the question is how long will a 14 yr old S5 turbo handle it. I knew there would be people attacking my post, thats great but look at the results, people broke...We all know Vosko and his luck, so he is already factored into the breakage from the beginning. all of these parts were suggested as Overkill for a reason. the same way the cars are built originally. You build a safety net into the build to make sure the weak link is not due to poor planning on your part. People are quick to critisize someone that suggests something more than what is needed. The fact is, a lot of these people have never done the work themselves. Personally I am all about cheap racing to a point, but the line gets blurry until you start breaking things, then the line becomes abundantly clear.



How many posts have we seen in the last 6 months about clutches? and these were from mildly modified motors, barely even tapping the potential of the 13b.



The Single Trbo forum is full of people looking to buy a new turbo for more power. And not everyone is an expert at finding the right turbo for thier application.



Fuel management is a touchy subject with me, putting a S-AFC on a car is a band-aid in my opinion for someone that is too cheap to do it right the first time. By the time you purchase a S-AFC new (used is s different story) Install it, and get it tuned properly, you could have bought a Haltech, installed it (have fun...) and loaded the pre tuned map for your car you are close to the same cost within $100 or so.



A lot of people overlook the smallest details when it come to the car, Performance is cheap in comparison to reliability. What may work on your 56,000 mile car will not work for the masses w/ 100,000 plus, the reliability factor drops exponentially.



I am a little upset by the amount of posts that I see about blown engines, only to find out that by a little preventive maintenance, or upgrading of the right components the problem could have been avoided. The point is you could pay a little now, or a lot later.



J9 says I will be running my car on the edge, but to be honest, I will be tuning the car to the 500-600 hp level a few times over the season, but acctually detuning it for reliability and consistancy. If I build the car to these levels, then only run around 400-450hp all season and make it through without breakage, I have done what I set out to do, build a reliable drag car with minimal cost. The parts I have could put me into the 700hp levels, I am building this car to extremes but how much money would I have at the end of the drag season with a 700hp car? not as much as I would running a 400hp bracket racing car with the same modifications. I have spent close to 2 years shopping for a lot of the parts I have, and I got deals that most guys cry about (Teknics comes to mind) I am spending a lot of money in certain places where the most questionable parts are, like cooling, clutch, and the fuel system. Building it right the first time takes away all the little dollar you to death parts runs to the store. Although I may not have a magazine spread for my car, I may not be on the cover of National Dragster in your next issue, and I will not have the prettiest engine bay in town, I know in my heart the car was built for a specific purpose, and it was done right....the first time https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/bigok.gif

this is true i was running 100-101 mph trap speeds and 1.90 60 FT's.... launching is half the game with drag racing

Kraig ( ILuv88) also blew up his engine in a few short months

Bottom line...

Stock turbo, with full exhaust, full intake, and supporting fuel mods will induce the FC to run 13's all night long.



Now, this will most likely slip the stock clutch, sure.







-Ted

His engine didnt blow. His main bearing got distroyed.

My engine however, did blow. But i attribute that to me beating the hell out of it and pinging it like crazy. Ask ecko or iluvmy88, they both drove in my car when i would boost it really high to test it and ping so bad it sounded like popcorn. I didnt care if that engine blew up, and it did eventually. Leasons learned from it are first hand, not because someone else TOLD me what they thought would happen. So it was worth it ... i now know that the stock turbo can see 15psi and still pump out power. Anything more than that and you see a decrease in power. Also with correct tuning im sure you could run 15psi for a pretty long time (i might add, this is also with a greddy 2row FMIC, i would not recommend anyone run over 10psi on the stock ic). Im sure people will disagree with me on this, but oh well.. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png

And the difference is?







-Ted

i think it had to do with him having a dashpot.



kevin.

difference is that the only part of the engine that failed was the main bearing. That had nothing to do with over boosting.

i blew the stock clutch in like 2 weeks cause the clutch master failed and i launched and yeah... it wasn't pretty.



i have to say this 15psi on the stock turbo is FUN.. anyway yeah don't try it unless you have some money to burn afterwards https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png

don't u mean credit cards?

depends on the person. most people blow them up and sell them https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...DIR#>/wink.png



umm the FD sucked up all my credit. so i had to pay cash for everything on the T2 but damn was it worth it! over 100 drag runs, 1 FULL 2 day track event!!!!! it was awesome

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.ph...hreadid=176211



The old owner of my TII ran a 13.75 with ^those^ mods @ 5.5 lbs of boost or whatever the stock spring is set at cause the DSV is acting up



Since then ive got an Apex'i Power Intake,3" Custom Turboback exhaust and an ACT 6 Puck Clutch kit.I'll see what I can make her run early this spring and will give you the updated time with 8 lbs of boost



You should be able to run low 13s with those mods and even lower with an upgraded stock turbo...save the money towards a FMIC or something