Gauging interest: n/a turbo kit
11-18-2005, 10:53 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Peoria, AZ
Posts: 10,906
I spent a few days toying with the idea of putting together a turbo kit for the n/a fc owners, this kit is however not completed, and nothing is set in stone. I am trying to offer the cheapest possible way to turbocharge a non-turbo FC. I do know ofcourse its not of the best quality, and obviously not the proper way to go about doing it. I already make a very high quality To4 manifold, and kit for both turbo and non-turbo Rx-7s, but lets face it, not to many Rx-7 owners can afford to do anything the proper way.
Key points:
Cheapest possible kit at the expensive of quality
Little know-how required to do this
Most bang for the buck
This proposed kit will use a factory 87-91 turbo and manifold with no intercooler, but water alcohol injection.
The EFI will remain factory, except for larger secondary injectors and an S-afc or some other fuel controller.
The factory intake system, main catalytic converter and catback will also be used. No tapping required for oil feed or return lines.
I have not completed this kit, I don't intent to spend any money finishing it, testing it on a car etc if there is no interest. As said before I can alter any part of the kit, I can even have the turbo hot pipe made out of a nice cast piece if desired.
I have made a nice sturdy spacer, that will not break over time. I intend to add some bracing to it, and also weld it inside and out at each flange. .128" thick wall tubing will be used, and I have 1/2" flanges on either end. It will require either longer factory studs, or the use of bolts and nuts. An additional exhaust gasket flange is required. I have aftermarket ones in stock.
I have not constructed the downpipe, but I already have the flanges, and I plan on making them out of 2.5" O.D. piping. It will bolt to the stock main cat.
I will have assembled oil feed and returns lines, made out of cheaper Earl's AN lines, SS rubber hose and CNC flanges. This will require an oil filter pedestal adapter for the oil feed line source. The oil return line will screw into the oil pan drain plug hole.
A water alcohol injection kit is required, $200 will buy you a basic kit here: http://www.coolingmist.com/categories.aspx...on=set&res=1024
This will require either I or youself to tap a the throttle body inlet to install a fitting.
The piping from the turbo to the stock TB can be setup as pictured if desired, it is by far the cheapest way to go about it, but by far not the best. I would supply a different piece of hose to attach the factory bov pipe to the turbo. I can have a nice piece cast that would have gentle bends and nice I.D. transition if desired, but ofcourse the price will go up.
These parts can either be supplied with the kit or you pick them up yourself:
1) Used s4 turbo, manifold, and associated lines/fittings possible stock IC lines/bov: $120-200
2) water alcohol injection kit $200
3) S-afc and 720s $400
Spacer, assembled lines, downpipe, and possible intake pipe I haven't determined the price yet, the parts alone are near $300. I'm not going to do this if there is no money to be made so probably atleast $300. I can also rebuild the turbos if desired, $275 if the price before shipping. We can also do any hyrbid upgrades too.
Now I figure if there is interest for this, it will be used on cars with a limited budget, running the factory powertrain and cooling system. I figure this kit should not be run at more than stock s4 boost, 5.5 PSI. The power increase should not overwhelm the factory drivetrain, cooling system, suspension, or the higher mileage used motors. All said an done the timing should be retarded several degrees, and a wideband used to tune the s-afc.
So is this worth doing or am I a retard
I already asked my boss not to laugh at me..
https://www.nopistons.com/forums/index.php?..._album&album=42
Key points:
Cheapest possible kit at the expensive of quality
Little know-how required to do this
Most bang for the buck
This proposed kit will use a factory 87-91 turbo and manifold with no intercooler, but water alcohol injection.
The EFI will remain factory, except for larger secondary injectors and an S-afc or some other fuel controller.
The factory intake system, main catalytic converter and catback will also be used. No tapping required for oil feed or return lines.
I have not completed this kit, I don't intent to spend any money finishing it, testing it on a car etc if there is no interest. As said before I can alter any part of the kit, I can even have the turbo hot pipe made out of a nice cast piece if desired.
I have made a nice sturdy spacer, that will not break over time. I intend to add some bracing to it, and also weld it inside and out at each flange. .128" thick wall tubing will be used, and I have 1/2" flanges on either end. It will require either longer factory studs, or the use of bolts and nuts. An additional exhaust gasket flange is required. I have aftermarket ones in stock.
I have not constructed the downpipe, but I already have the flanges, and I plan on making them out of 2.5" O.D. piping. It will bolt to the stock main cat.
I will have assembled oil feed and returns lines, made out of cheaper Earl's AN lines, SS rubber hose and CNC flanges. This will require an oil filter pedestal adapter for the oil feed line source. The oil return line will screw into the oil pan drain plug hole.
A water alcohol injection kit is required, $200 will buy you a basic kit here: http://www.coolingmist.com/categories.aspx...on=set&res=1024
This will require either I or youself to tap a the throttle body inlet to install a fitting.
The piping from the turbo to the stock TB can be setup as pictured if desired, it is by far the cheapest way to go about it, but by far not the best. I would supply a different piece of hose to attach the factory bov pipe to the turbo. I can have a nice piece cast that would have gentle bends and nice I.D. transition if desired, but ofcourse the price will go up.
These parts can either be supplied with the kit or you pick them up yourself:
1) Used s4 turbo, manifold, and associated lines/fittings possible stock IC lines/bov: $120-200
2) water alcohol injection kit $200
3) S-afc and 720s $400
Spacer, assembled lines, downpipe, and possible intake pipe I haven't determined the price yet, the parts alone are near $300. I'm not going to do this if there is no money to be made so probably atleast $300. I can also rebuild the turbos if desired, $275 if the price before shipping. We can also do any hyrbid upgrades too.
Now I figure if there is interest for this, it will be used on cars with a limited budget, running the factory powertrain and cooling system. I figure this kit should not be run at more than stock s4 boost, 5.5 PSI. The power increase should not overwhelm the factory drivetrain, cooling system, suspension, or the higher mileage used motors. All said an done the timing should be retarded several degrees, and a wideband used to tune the s-afc.
So is this worth doing or am I a retard
https://www.nopistons.com/forums/index.php?..._album&album=42
11-18-2005, 11:00 PM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 248
dude, awesome... i was just about to post on here why do people buy a whole jspec motor and wiring harness and computer and all that for $4,000+??? why not just turbo the n/a... like all those honda people do? there naturally aspirated and they have turbo kits... cool tho, keep us posted. oh, and what the hey is a water/alcholol injection? i thought water was bad to inject into your motor. what is this for? oh, and the kit is definatly worth seeing as there are more n/a's than there are turbo's and of course everyone wants theirs to be turbo... i want to turbo mine but ive already done a full custom interior and dont want to rip it back out to replace it with a turbo wiring harness... so this would be perfect.
11-18-2005, 11:07 PM
#3
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Peoria, AZ
Posts: 10,906
I would also like to add before this goes any further, I WILL NOT make anything unless I have atleast 10 people interested who are willing to fork down a non-refundable deposit. I know how much people like to talk.....
11-19-2005, 03:54 AM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Garland, TX
Posts: 224
Let me first state that I'm not interested simply because you are about 8 months too late... I just recieved the final parts of my own 6port turbo.
However, I am curious to see how well this does... what PSI boost are you planning on running? Will you be porting wastegates for it?
However, I am curious to see how well this does... what PSI boost are you planning on running? Will you be porting wastegates for it?
11-19-2005, 10:36 AM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: California
Posts: 22,465
Originally Posted by 1Revvin7' post='779783' date='Nov 18 2005, 09:07 PM
I would also like to add before this goes any further, I WILL NOT make anything unless I have atleast 10 people interested who are willing to fork down a non-refundable deposit. I know how much people like to talk.....
you should just sell the spacer for the manifold, make like 2-3 or em at a time. maybe the hot pipe too, if theres interest
11-19-2005, 05:09 PM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 959
I agree w/ J9, it'll probably be better just to sell the spacer. The rest of that is fairly easy to put together yourself and I can't imagine many people would want to pay somebody else to source parts for them...
Secondly, not to bash or anything, but it is VERY dangerous to offer up a "low-budget" aka "low quality" turbo kit that will more than likely result in many a blown engine. This will cause most to have ill thoughts towards you and your kits.
Also, saying the spacer will last long enough is kind of hard is it not? how many vehicles are running the spacer? how much R&D has gone into it to ensure that it will last? Not trying to start anything, i'm just pointing out the fact that this is a "new" kit, so you can't gaurantee the parts will survive...not to mention, you stated yourself that you will be adding some bracing to it, which would imply the current design needs work...
Secondly, not to bash or anything, but it is VERY dangerous to offer up a "low-budget" aka "low quality" turbo kit that will more than likely result in many a blown engine. This will cause most to have ill thoughts towards you and your kits.
Also, saying the spacer will last long enough is kind of hard is it not? how many vehicles are running the spacer? how much R&D has gone into it to ensure that it will last? Not trying to start anything, i'm just pointing out the fact that this is a "new" kit, so you can't gaurantee the parts will survive...not to mention, you stated yourself that you will be adding some bracing to it, which would imply the current design needs work...
11-19-2005, 09:12 PM
#7
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Boston Ma.
Posts: 1,420
1revvin7, You seem to be pretty good at making manifolds. Why not just make a LIM that clears the TII turbo?
But I gotta say, its pretty hard findind a TII to pick from. Not to mention finding a good working turbo and mani.
Ive got some ideas of how to make an affordable kit, just not a $300 one.
But I gotta say, its pretty hard findind a TII to pick from. Not to mention finding a good working turbo and mani.
Ive got some ideas of how to make an affordable kit, just not a $300 one.
11-19-2005, 11:06 PM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: California
Posts: 22,465
Originally Posted by RONIN FC' post='780016' date='Nov 19 2005, 07:12 PM
1revvin7, You seem to be pretty good at making manifolds. Why not just make a LIM that clears the TII turbo?
But I gotta say, its pretty hard findind a TII to pick from. Not to mention finding a good working turbo and mani.
Ive got some ideas of how to make an affordable kit, just not a $300 one.
yeah just make a t4 manifold that fits the stock na intake! corky bell sold it as a kit in the 80's
11-19-2005, 11:56 PM
#9
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 34
If i get one do i get the yellow car beside it?
seriously though, Depending on the price since a 13bt swap with rearend/flywheel/cpu ect can happen for around 2k. and if you will give refunds if something breaks that had nothing to do with us installing it? like we get a turbo that has a small hole in it or something.
seriously though, Depending on the price since a 13bt swap with rearend/flywheel/cpu ect can happen for around 2k. and if you will give refunds if something breaks that had nothing to do with us installing it? like we get a turbo that has a small hole in it or something.