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i tryed posting this before but got blasted. maybe people arnt drinking there hater-ade today. so i'll try again.
im in iraq right now and plan on building a renesis powered FC. theres a few things io need to know first. and maybe a fellow rotor head has done this or put some serious though into it. what i need to know is, i know the FD and TII tranny bolt up using a TII clutch set up, but will they be compatible. (hydraulic, cable,push or pull style) or is the renesis tranny needed for the swap? oil pan location: will the lower tower bar needed to be fabbed or maybe the FC oil pan will bolt up. any clearencing issues here? anyone know of an after market intake manifold? in case i can just get the core, the rinky dinky plastic pieces are pretty exspensive. and may have some hood clearence problems. this might be the hardest part. wiring. would splicing the FC harness into the renesis harness be at all possible or worth it? or running the renesis harness be a lot less of a headache? right now im leaning towards a microtech LT10 to run it. but with such few mods (intake , headers, exhaust, and maybe custom intake manifold) maybe a full stand alone is an over kill. if anyone has any ideas. im open. thanks in advance... **and if your gonna say, just stay 13b turbo. more power less money. build your own car. let me build mine** |
Why a renesis if you don't mind me asking? They are not that powerful and tuning for high hp is just not there.
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i dont wanna turn this into a why discussion. but a how.
a simple answer is, i like all motor. i wount go any further due to past posts. people will comment and tear down ideas no matter what. lets just make this a how to, and general discussion on making an FC renesis powered. |
The Renesis isnt a variant of the 13B (so I have been told) so it will not bolt up to a 2nd gen tranny. I dont know the specs of the tranny in the rx8 but I am guessing it will be a different length for one thing so some crazy fab work will be involved.
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If these retard fukers can put V8's in these FC's then im sure u can put the renesis in. Besides its more reliable has better response, and its lighter i say .....DO IT, DO It.
"Its not always about being the fastest, but about feeling right" - Me |
Originally Posted by sen2two' post='832321' date='Aug 10 2006, 04:34 PM
i tryed posting this before but got blasted. maybe people arnt drinking there hater-ade today. so i'll try again. im in iraq right now and plan on building a renesis powered FC. theres a few things io need to know first. and maybe a fellow rotor head has done this or put some serious though into it. what i need to know is, i know the FD and TII tranny bolt up using a TII clutch set up, but will they be compatible. (hydraulic, cable,push or pull style) or is the renesis tranny needed for the swap? oil pan location: will the lower tower bar needed to be fabbed or maybe the FC oil pan will bolt up. any clearencing issues here? anyone know of an after market intake manifold? in case i can just get the core, the rinky dinky plastic pieces are pretty exspensive. and may have some hood clearence problems. this might be the hardest part. wiring. would splicing the FC harness into the renesis harness be at all possible or worth it? or running the renesis harness be a lot less of a headache? right now im leaning towards a microtech LT10 to run it. but with such few mods (intake , headers, exhaust, and maybe custom intake manifold) maybe a full stand alone is an over kill. if anyone has any ideas. im open. thanks in advance... **and if your gonna say, just stay 13b turbo. more power less money. build your own car. let me build mine** any 74+ mazda transmission will bolt up to the engine, ideally use a turbo 2 trans and clutch, its a straight bolt in. the rx8 oil pan is really shallow, it should clear the fc with no troubles, however i dont know anyone who's done it. fc pan isnt a straight bolt in, shouldnt be hard, but it doesnt got right in. nobody makes an intake except mazda, that i know of you need to use an aftermarket ecu. RX8 ecu wont work, and neither will the fc one. you also need to fab up some motor mounts, radiator hoses, oil cooler lines, exhaust too. |
Yes I would agree that using a standalone ecu for this project..like a wolf3d or something..something with its own harness. its going to take some fab work, like stated before motor mounts and perhaps tranny mounts. As for an intake that would be a total custom job...perhaps the guys at Turblown could do it.
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hey jedi....it says 13b on the renesis. so it is "a varient" of the 13b. and it does bolt up to the TII tranny. thanks...
anyways. thanks for the help. i looking into getting the Microtech LT8. they have preloaded maps for FD's and FC's. so maybe it will be easier to tune the renensis with. what do you think? i see the wolf 3D was mentioned. a lot of rotar heads use them. will it be easier to wire it up than say, haltech, microtech? (im new to the wiring and ECU stuff) and i know i'll need some engine and tranny mounts fabbed. i can weld. but never done this. how should i configure the placement of the mounts. to make sure there correctly placed for balance and weight distribuation. |
Originally Posted by sen2two' post='832422' date='Aug 11 2006, 10:54 AM
hey jedi....it says 13b on the renesis. so it is "a varient" of the 13b. and it does bolt up to the TII tranny. thanks... Like I said.... it was what I was told and I dont know much about the Renesis. but hell, maybe next time I should just flame you? Sorry for trying to help a little. |
Originally Posted by sen2two' post='832422' date='Aug 11 2006, 10:54 AM
and i know i'll need some engine and tranny mounts fabbed. i can weld. but never done this. how should i configure the placement of the mounts. to make sure there correctly placed for balance and weight distribuation. easy way is to bolt it up to the trans, and use a jack to position it, then fab up mounts in card board (or something). the rx8 mounts are a little too far forward, i think. as far as wiring an ecu, they all are going to be about the same, you need to look at how mazda runs the vdi and the 6 port crap too, one is a stepper motor i think, not every ecu can do that. |
Sorry for thread jacking. But i have a question along the lines of this thread and may be helpfull for the original poster to find an ECU.
As I recall, the Ren has 6 injectors. How are they sequenced? Primary, then 4 secondaries, or primary, secondary, then "aux" injectors? |
Originally Posted by RONIN FC' post='832511' date='Aug 12 2006, 07:41 AM
Sorry for thread jacking. But i have a question along the lines of this thread and may be helpfull for the original poster to find an ECU. As I recall, the Ren has 6 injectors. How are they sequenced? Primary, then 4 secondaries, or primary, secondary, then "aux" injectors? the service highlights book and the yamaguchi rx8 book say 2 different things. yamaguchi says that all the injectors turn on @3700 service highlights says: "when the amount of fuel demand from the engine is low, only the primary 1 injectors inject fuel. When the amount of fuel demand from the engine increases, fuel injection in the order of secondary injecto and primary 2 injector (high power) begin injection" i think they say the primaries are on, then the secondaries, then the primary 2 come online |
i have seen the whole stepper motor thing before in other threads. i dont really understand it. what exacty are they, how do they work? and also, what is a fly-by-wire throttle cable. and how does it differ from others.
about the tranny for a TII, theres no difference between push and pull type here? to mount up to the renesis? |
Originally Posted by sen2two' post='832522' date='Aug 12 2006, 09:20 AM
i have seen the whole stepper motor thing before in other threads. i dont really understand it. what exacty are they, how do they work? and also, what is a fly-by-wire throttle cable. and how does it differ from others. about the tranny for a TII, theres no difference between push and pull type here? to mount up to the renesis? the fd is a pull type clutch, everything else is a normal push type. the throwout bearing pushes on the pressure plate. the renisis actually just uses a t2 clutch. instead of a throttle cable the rx8 uses fly by wire, there is a sensor on the gas pedal, that tells the ecu what your foot is doing, then the ecu outputs to the throttle body, which has a stepper motor to move the throttle plate around. a stepper motor, is an electric motor that is able to work in steps, instead of turning full revolutions in one direction or the other, they are able to turn partial revolutions, in either direction. the 89+ metering pumps are stepper motors. to run the throttle takes a pretty good ecu, the e11 haltech can run the metering pump, but its not fast enough to do the throttle |
thanx...i feel smarter already. lol...
do you think the Microtech LT10 could control the stepper motors and the metering pump? or is this a question i should direct towards Microtech-efi.com? couldnt i cancel out the stepper motor for the throttle, and run my own cable? and stepper motor for the 6 ports.....with a custom intake manifold, that would be obselete also, right? (something like a weber carb lower manifold, with 2 individual throttle bodys adapted) after that....any full stand alone ECU should be good. unless i got this whole "get rid of the stepper motors" idea wrong. |
also...how much for the renesis it self? with harness and anything else i will need.
and is mazda letting these things go, or am i on a hunt for one? and when bolting the motor to the TII tranny, with a TII clutch, i guessing i would also use a TII flywheel.?.? |
[attachment=39125:attachment]
something like this, with a home made Lower intake manifold.... |
Originally Posted by sen2two' post='832648' date='Aug 13 2006, 07:36 AM
also...how much for the renesis it self? with harness and anything else i will need. and is mazda letting these things go, or am i on a hunt for one? and when bolting the motor to the TII tranny, with a TII clutch, i guessing i would also use a TII flywheel.?.? motor rebuilt is $2600, its just the block too the rx8 and t2 use the same clutch, so you would use the rx8 flywheel |
Originally Posted by sen2two' post='832646' date='Aug 13 2006, 07:10 AM
thanx...i feel smarter already. lol... do you think the Microtech LT10 could control the stepper motors and the metering pump? or is this a question i should direct towards Microtech-efi.com? couldnt i cancel out the stepper motor for the throttle, and run my own cable? and stepper motor for the 6 ports.....with a custom intake manifold, that would be obselete also, right? (something like a weber carb lower manifold, with 2 individual throttle bodys adapted) after that....any full stand alone ECU should be good. unless i got this whole "get rid of the stepper motors" idea wrong. i dont think microtech can do it, you would have to convert to cables or something |
what do you mean "convert it to cables"? im not following here. sorry. can i not just cancel out the stepper motors if using the custom manifold and throttle bodys?
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The intake manifold is a big reason the RX8 makes what it makes for HP. If you want webbers, build a 4 port 13b. You will make more power than a renesis on Webbers.
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have you done this ronin? probly not....so thats your theory. this is a how to thread. not a "do it my way" thread thank you...
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Originally Posted by sen2two' post='832808' date='Aug 14 2006, 08:56 PM
have you done this ronin? probly not....so thats your theory. this is a how to thread. not a "do it my way" thread thank you...
No, but I have carbed a 6 port, last I checked the renesis was a 6 port. You put a webber on the Ren with 5+6 ports open, and you will experience carb tunning problems never before known to man ! https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683664.gif Your arguing a point you dont really understand. That engine and manifold are designed to work together! By deleting the manifold, your eliminating the things that make that engine beneficial in N/A form. That was my point. Its gonna be hard finding help in here if you keep acting the way you are... |
im not gonna use a carb ronin. individual throttle bodys are my weapon of choice. (picture) and every engine and manifold are designed to work together. but everything can be improved upon. hence the aftermarket world.
and i seem to be getting th answers i need. except from the people who shoot down ideas before there ever tryed. i have read through a lot of threads. and they always wound up in arguements and get off topic. they go from a how-to into a thats not how i would do it battle. i dont want this one that way. the question was, (refering to MY manifold of choice) can i cancel out the stepper motors, run my own throttle cable to the ITB's. and make a custom lower manifold. still fuel injected. my brother has a haltech e6k for cheap. outdated or will it work? |
Originally Posted by sen2two' post='832894' date='Aug 15 2006, 01:26 PM
the question was, (refering to MY manifold of choice) can i cancel out the stepper motors, run my own throttle cable to the ITB's. and make a custom lower manifold. still fuel injected.
my brother has a haltech e6k for cheap. outdated or will it work? Not trying to battle, just my opinion. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/bigok.gif |
if i used per mix i could cancel out the stepper motor for the metering pump right? not a bad idea...what do you mean "conventional TB"?
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Originally Posted by sen2two' post='833034' date='Aug 16 2006, 01:07 PM
if i used per mix i could cancel out the stepper motor for the metering pump right? not a bad idea...what do you mean "conventional TB"?
I meant a comparable, or even better aftermarket TB for another application that uses a throttle cable. I believe some even come with a TPS. |
When going standalone, you can pretty much use any throttle body you want. It doesn't have to mate with the factory electronics.
Someone put an Edelbrock throttle body on an FC, so you might wanna contact them and see if they have anything you can use. It'll get rid of your stepper motor problem. |
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