Alright guys hopefully this wont be a normal 2nd gen topic, this is going to be pretty indepth please stick with me. Vert owners (specifically s5, 1991 owners input is very welcome)



All of this is involving a car I've worked on a couple times now at the mazda dealer, solutions can only be things usable at a dealer, no ghetto-rigged switches etc.



Alright here we go, history of the car:

1991 S5 Vert, automatic. Car comes in headlight dont work, turn headlight switch on and oly parking lights come on lights dont pop or come on. Quickly diagnosed as the headlight switch, ordered, installed problem fixed.



After installing headlight switch we then discover the high beams do not work. Test the high beam switch, no continuity where it should be, order new high beam switch.



Here's where it gets tricky.



After installing the high beam switch, when pulling directly back on it the high beams do not work. Pulling straight back on the switch turns on the regular headlights but no high beams or high beam indicators.

I go to the "dimmer relay" (high beam is called dimmer in the FSM). If i ground the coil pin of the relay the relay works properly, switches the relay and high beams come on as well as turning on the high beam indicator on the dashboard.

I then go to the connector at the high beam switch on the harness side. I jump the black wire (ground) directly to the high beam relay wire on the connector (green/black). Nothing, does not make the relay switch at all.

So i've determined the wire from that connector which goes directly to that relay, only place it splits is at the main connector under the brake master, otherwise it goes directly to the relay. So basically my test determines that wire is broken somewhere, to confirm this i test for continuity from one end to the other, no continuity.

So I create my own jumper wire going from the connector straight to the relay. When i ground that wire the high beams go on and the high beam indicator goes on the dash, bam everythings working perfectly.

Connect the high beam switch back to the connector, pull back on the stalk, nothing no high beams at all, same symptoms as before it only turns on the regular headlights.



Before going further lets describe the high beam switch:



When pulling back on the switch there are two internal switches which should close and receive a ground signal. The black wire is the ground, when pulled back it should connect to the white/blue wire which goes to the headlight relay, it closes the headlight relay first which then sends power through the "dimmer relay". When the dimmer relay is not activated it sends power to the lowbeam filament of the bulbs and turns on your headlights. The second internal switch should connect the black wire (ground) to the Green/Black wire which then runs to the "dimmer relay", switching that relay. Once that relay is switched it then sends power to the highbeam filament of the headlight bulbs.



So I test the switch, results:

With High Beam Switched Pulled back:

Black -> White/Blue - continuity, white/blue has been ground headlight relay turns on lowbeams

Black -> Green/Black - no continuity no ground signal going to "dimmer relay" therefore no high beams.



So i'm thinking bad switch right? I wasn't happy with that conclusion, nor was the writer and i'd dout the customer would be happy to hear it.



So i decide to take apart the old switch and see what could possibly be wrong.



What i discovered has boggled my mind, and is where I need input.



When disassembling the switch and looking at the sweeps and contact points i discovered that the only time the high beam switch "closes" and sends ground to the "dimmer relay" activating the high beams is when you pull back on the switch as if to turn on the high beams AND THEN PUSH DOWN OR UP TO TURN ON YOUR BLINKERS.



That's what has me stumped. Basically this car has no way of simply turning on the high beams and leaving them on. It seems that the high beams are used solely as "Flash To Pass" since you can only turn them on at the same time as your blinkers, once you relase the switch the blinkers stay on and the high beams go off.



Is this normal or did i get some weird ******* one of a kind car? The brand new oem mazda high beam switch that went in worked on the test bench the SAME way as the one that was in the car leading me to believe thats the appropriate way for it to work, but it just doesnt seem right to me. Plus one of my co-workers has an s5 vert and says he can turn on and leave on his highbeams without a problem.



So s5 vert guys, preferably 1991 and automatic, can you turn on and leave on your highbeams or are they flash to pass only?



Please help me, its blowing my mind.



j9, where you be?



kevin.

Now, I have had some experience with the healamp switches. One thing that I can tell you for sure is that the headlight switch and the turn signal/dimmer switch are interconnected via the wiring harness. What you are seeing is a trigger for a toggle from the dimmer switch to the headlight switch that should trigger the relay on and off. Now this toggle function is done via the headlight switch if I remember correctly. I have had to rebuild mine because my right front park light harness rubbed through and grounded out. That circut is not fused and thusly cost me my good working headlight switch and part of the connector. A little soldering and wire tracing later, I had found, fixed, and bandaged everything I could.

If you Take apart the headlight/popup/defroster switch, you'll see that there is a circut board with a lot of shyte in there.

Perhapse a look at your wiring diagrams will be of further help. I hope you find this gremlin and smash it with a BFH!





dpf22

believe me went over the wiring diagrams completely. The circuit would work perfectly if the high beam switch would close the high beam switch. it closes the headlight switch and then closes the headlight relay just as it should but the second grounding switch which should activate the high beam relay switching on the high beams.



he problem is the circuit board in the high beam switch is built in a way that the highbeam circuit is only ground when pulling it straight back and then putting it in the blinker position before releasing.



keep in mind this is a vert so the highbeam switch is on the column, not mounted to the gauge surround, which is a different system./wiring setup.



ive figured how to ghetto rig it but we will see.



kevin.

wow, honestly, I didn't think that the verts were that different. Shows how much I know lol. Ah well, it doesn't hurt to try right?



dpf22

meh ive written it off as a car that happens to have a japanese part in it, its a late 91 model so maybe they ran out of american highbeam switches or something.



kevin.

Was it a vert specific headlight switch? The switches are different between the coupes and verts. Its been a while, but in my 89 vert the high beams worked normally, but I do remember the switch not working in a coupe(parted the vert).

it was a VIN specific high beam switch actually so it was the exact switch that was removed from the car, i even matched the internals to be sure.



guy still hasnt picked up his car so i havent thought about it much lol. either way, the system works 100% as far as the parts involved go. just cause it doesnt work like a "normal" car isnt my problem....at least thats what ive decided.



kevin.

I was recently working on one that had a similar problem. I tested the high-beam relay and it's coil was internally shorted, so I replaced it, but the same symptom. I then discovered that the shorted relay had fried the high-beam traces in the headlight switch (without blowing the fuse!!). I then replaced the headlight switch, all was fine after that. You may have fried the new switch with a bad relay. This one was a coupe, but the symptoms are the same, so maybe it will help. Let us know when you find the answer!

THANKS!

Rodney

thats weird kevvy. i did a vert like that, i forget what the symptom was, but i ended up pulling the headlight switch apart and putting a jumper wire on the circuit board....



anyways... i dont have a 91 fsm to look at, but in the wiring diagram, theres a switch for the uppy downy part of the lights

figured it out guess i forgot to post lol.



I think it was only the '91 verts w/ airbags specifically that actually have the high-beams controlled by the CPU in the driver's kick panel (way to go workshop manual makers). So sure enough i looked in the kickpanel, waterleak RIGHT onto the CPU connector. needed a new cpu.



bolted it in, walah problem solved.



BTW, j9, i was about 2 seconds away from soldering on the circuit board of the switch to make it work the proper way, it only need a small conductor line on the board.



man i hate remembering this vert, wiring nightmare, had to basically make my own harness for the high-beam relay and ****, and guy was still bitchin at me. I was like yo this car is falling apart and now you want it to be perfect?



kevin.