has anyone put a 3rd gen manifold on any year 2nd gen? if so? noticable difference? what mods have to be done? do you need upper and lower? throttle body? sensors? add ons and cancelations? help please. i'm sure im not the first to wanna do this. thanx

-FD LIM bolt pattern and port pattern to block is not the same, not good canidate

-S5 TII LIM good canidate to use

-Port match and bolt pattern match S5 TII LIM to FD UIM or

-Fab adapter plate for bolt pattern and runners for the TII LIM and FD UIM

-If no adapter plate, cut casting to fit TII fuel rail under FD UIM

-If no adapter plate, port and bolt pattern match using centre stud as a guide (very important)

-If no adapter plate, be careful on port matching, primary runner wall is thin on the FD UIM where you need thickness

-FD UIM requires FD TB, secondary plates have +5mm diameter

-TPS wiring fab work required to work with whatever you are using, FD TPS is FD TB specific

-BACV wiring fab work required (if you want to use it)

-IAT is FD Specific, plug IAT hole in UIM and tap 1/4" NPT somewhere in the intake for FC IAT

-FD Elbow assembly is different than all FC, Use the FD Elbow or fab it as required for your use





Pictures:



1. Picture of hood clearance (plenty) with no adapter

2. Screwdriver pointing at thin runner wall

3. Explanation, pictures of offset holes, centrestud as guide

4. Close up of (slightly shifted, for drama purposes) FD UIM gasket over FC LIM

5. FD UIM gasket over FC LIM, red shows where primary runners for FD UIM go









After port matching and making it happen, I'd rather fab an adapter plate for the sake of having better proportioned runners, and having no worries about the primary walls and the bolt holes all lining up perfect every time.



This car was N/A, and no I didn't dyno it. No numbers, sorry.

Edit: Removed a majority of my post because Colin's explanation is much better.



I may be mistaken, but I believe RE Amemiya (I can never spell than name correctly, but I think you know who I mean) sells a kit to do this, with a spacer to go between the manifolds and a 3rd gen TPS->2nd gen plug adaptor as well, but I think its a bit pricey.

FEED sells an adapter, and it's like 500 bucks or something ridiculous





For a chunk of aluminum, lol...





If you have the know how and resources, you can fab your own plate out of aluminum stock for 20 bucks

great info thanks man. pictures are helpful too. do you know of any aftermarket manifols?

colin make me an adapter https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png



but yea colin definitely nailed the answer, with pictures. high five for him.



kevin.

So anyone out there with a dyno map showing hte gains of all that work?

if not that much gain...i still looks better! but i too am wondering if theres a signifigant gain.

does anyone know an exact web site or something so i can get a kit to do this or even the adapter plate. wires? anyone!?!?

Who needs an exact dyno number to tell you that straighter runners and bigger secondary plates are better for your ported engine?

the uninformed?



kevin.

I think thats a valid question!

It may be better for a ported engine, but how much better. is it worth it? Does it even feel different when you drive it?

No one has been able to show a significant improvement other than just looking better.



I see 2 issues with the setup

1 You still have the most restrictive part, the TII LIM.

2 The transition between manifolds looks like it would cause turbulance that may or may not have issues.

my buddy has one on his fc.. he had a machinist friend of his make him the adapter to go inbetween the FC LIM and FD UIM.. as far as other plugs and stuff.. I have no clue since he has a microtech standalone.

Speaking of turbulence, have you looked at a TII UIM lately? Just the way they put it together to work with the top mount?

Yeah I have, it's genius.

Im looking at it right now, and no, maybe not the best. And at first glance you would think that its compramised only for the TMIC. If you have one at hand i urge you to take another look inside behind the TB.

Its actually focused with independent primary and secondary dynamic chambers. The throttle body needs to be near 90 degrees from the direct path of the intake runner to maximize the "ping pong" effect between front and rear rotor. This design probably increased torque working together with the double throttle system sorta ironing out the feeling of turbo lag. If anything, it seems the TMIC is compramized to work with the manifolds having nearly 2 consecutive 90 degree bends.



Ive never seen the 13b RE manifold in person, but I immagine it uses alot of the same design aspects trying to ramp up torque to pull a large Cosmo

Grab a FD UIM and look at the design behind the throttle plates

Am i gonna find a hidden dynamic chamber somewhere?

Just do it

I dont have one around be able to do that, but I know what I would see...

A couple of merged pipes which barely makes up a couple of dynamic chambers.



I think your missing my point. I know the FD manifolds are better, when used together.

But the TII uim isnt bad enough to make that big a difference, especially when you put the FD mani on the TII lim.



Unless you care to show me other wise.

Regardless, if you're going to bring up ping-pong effect and such, you should have your hands on an FD manifold and really look at it closely.



I have both, we have different backround and opinion on the matter, I think it's a bit one sided if you've only really seen in person one of the two.





Mazda never really designed anything just to look prettier, the ports on the REW are bigger than a TII, no? they would have setup the UIM incorperating those ports and their dynamics, ping ponging, etc, it's not like for the FD they said "ahh screw it, it's turbo, so screw R+D on ping pong effect and runner dynamics this time, we will just make bigger ports and have bigger throttle plates, and a 'pretty' top half".



That's all I'm really saying here. And when you are porting a TII engine, more or less you are bringing it somewhat closer to an REW. And most guys want to go front mount anyways, why use a UIM that's setup for the TII's OEM port work and top mount design.











I haven't seen the FD LIM in person, so I won't argue with the TII LIM being restrictive. If I had an FD LIM and TII UIM, I would have constructed a way to turn the FD LIM into an FC block bolt-on.. Somehow.. perhaps that's a bit presumptuous of me, but I worked that S5 TII LIM you see in the pictures to bolt up to a 6-port block, and the porting was (to say the least) quite different.



If you want it bad enough, you can make anything happen.



Perhaps this discussion should be about how to bolt up the FD LIM to an FC block? https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png



Then again you could just use REW secondary irons in your next rebuild to minimize fabrication..







Sorry in advance, sometimes I go on a tangent...

yep, i was suprised to look in there and see its all subdivided, the 3 rotor is too

The REW splits up secondary and primary ports in the "dynamic chamber" (albeit a small one) just like the TII



The primary on the REW has a barely smaller dynamic chamber in comparison to the TII primary dynamic chamber, you need to look at them both very closely, don't let the outside aesthetics fool you







Perhaps (putting trust in mazda's R+D) maybe they went with a smaller secondary dynamic chamber because of the difference in secondary throttle plate design?





Just throwing out ideas here, not wanting to argue or anything, we are all on the same team! https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png







I don't know how many times I wish I had an R+D guy sitting next to me so I could say "why did you do this" and he would just give me the answers

yeah usually there is a reason they do stuff, and its usually not obscure, but the fd twin turbo setup seems to be at odds with the lightweight theme in the rest of the car. i know people will complain about no low end tork just cause its a rotary, even if it ran 0-60 in 2 seconds

Of course not. Discussions like this are positive.



The secondary ports are a little bigger on the FD, but not the primary.Looks like the primarys open about 13degrees later on the FD.Maybe to reduce some overlap. But thats another topic.

It seems to me that they compramised the dynamic chamber(s) to try to increase flow. I suppose they were relying on the sequential turbos. And I guess the weight of the car could have been a factor in wheather or not they could do without it.

i like the cosmo 13b intake cuz it looks pretty.. like a spider with..