Advice on building a 13B PP
12-14-2010, 04:40 PM
#21
Fabricator
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Central Ohio (Hebron) Zephyrhills Fla.
Posts: 1,322
He knows it all. Who built what. How much power it made. And has tried everything on a dyno that anyone ever thought of.
I would love to work for him.
Lynn E. Hanover
12-14-2010, 07:48 PM
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: watertown wisconsin
Posts: 1,331
ya by lookin at the guy you wouldnt expect him to be a gear head, he just doesnt fit the profile ya know. he looks more like someone who would be sitting behind a computer desk trouble shooting some micro soft stuff not in a shop porting a rotary .
12-18-2010, 04:04 PM
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 564
mustang dynos are very acurate.2
as far as your statment about rotaries not being competitive is bullshit , we race nationaly in E production, at the run offs this year and last and even the year before almost half of the feild where rotary powered. there are alot of gt3 cars running and winning alot with rotary, there are a good number of rotary running in gt2 aswell and winning. hell there is even a hand full running in gt1 and last year a rotary one the national at sebring.
that is not to mention the rolex series where speedsource killed it the past few years with the 3 rotor rx8 and in st there doing quiet well as well as in world challenge ect ect ect..............
also on a reginal scale ITS is dominated by second gen rx7s
the problem is not a power issue or a noise issue its a fuel consumpiton issue as we all know that these little air pumps drink alot of freaking fuel to make power. and another issue is rotary powered vehicals are only in one car wich was fazed out for a few years untill recently with the rx8 wich took alot of rule making to happen to allow the car to compeat.
every time i open a GCR i am amazed in how much weight a rotary powered road race car in any given class has to weigh as compaired to its comp.
as far as your statment about rotaries not being competitive is bullshit , we race nationaly in E production, at the run offs this year and last and even the year before almost half of the feild where rotary powered. there are alot of gt3 cars running and winning alot with rotary, there are a good number of rotary running in gt2 aswell and winning. hell there is even a hand full running in gt1 and last year a rotary one the national at sebring.
that is not to mention the rolex series where speedsource killed it the past few years with the 3 rotor rx8 and in st there doing quiet well as well as in world challenge ect ect ect..............
also on a reginal scale ITS is dominated by second gen rx7s
the problem is not a power issue or a noise issue its a fuel consumpiton issue as we all know that these little air pumps drink alot of freaking fuel to make power. and another issue is rotary powered vehicals are only in one car wich was fazed out for a few years untill recently with the rx8 wich took alot of rule making to happen to allow the car to compeat.
every time i open a GCR i am amazed in how much weight a rotary powered road race car in any given class has to weigh as compaired to its comp.
Before you reply , read a rotary racing history book, it will save us both a lot of typing..
Back to dyno's, you don't seem to get it, the only thing one particular dyno is accurate to, IS ITSELF.. for the last freaking time..
12-20-2010, 05:03 AM
#24
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 24
Everything sounds fine so-far.
I would not use steel apex seals without a rev limiter. Real hard on the chrome in an over-rev.
I did one home made 12-A Pport and we raced with a Madeville built factory Pport engine. About 310 HP at 10,000 RPM.
Keep the EGTs under 1650 at full tilt, and it will last all year. I would use carbon apex seals. No wear at all.
If you do the RX-8 rotors have a known name shop do the apex seal grooves, as they are too shallow for regular seals.
Our side port 12-As were by Daryl Drummond.
Lynn E. Hanover
I would not use steel apex seals without a rev limiter. Real hard on the chrome in an over-rev.
I did one home made 12-A Pport and we raced with a Madeville built factory Pport engine. About 310 HP at 10,000 RPM.
Keep the EGTs under 1650 at full tilt, and it will last all year. I would use carbon apex seals. No wear at all.
If you do the RX-8 rotors have a known name shop do the apex seal grooves, as they are too shallow for regular seals.
Our side port 12-As were by Daryl Drummond.
Lynn E. Hanover
Lynn, thanks for the post.
12-22-2010, 10:17 PM
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 524
116 decibels is roughly 40 times louder than 100 decibels. Logarithmic scale, and all. Every 10 decibel increase means that it is ten times louder.
I had a car that would measure 123 decibels inside the car while tooling down the highway. Not rotary powered, that came much later. The stereo had to be heavily enriched to be heard over the din, our gauge could only read to 126 but it would just barely peg it out.
A few years ago, I noticed that I couldn't hear very quiet things anymore. In a quiet room, I used to be able to hear my heatbeat. Now, a high pitched whine like a television capacitor drowns it out. Ever come home from a concert or get out of the car and everything seems to be razor-sharp painful loud for a few hours? That's the aftereffects of hearing damage. It's cumulative and it won't come back. I'm a lot more careful about noise than I used to be. Now if only I could break my habit of staring at this high-resolution light bulb!
2mm seals can withstand a little more RPM than 3mm seals, iron versus iron. I suspect that the differing information will make sense once you chart who says what versus who builds what.
High flowing exhaust systems can be made relatively quiet, but there's a lot of dark science involved. One trick involves a chokepoint in the collector to acoustically decouple the header from the rest of the exhaust system. Many hours on the dyno to get it right. After you do all that, you'll still have the intake noise to deal with, which will be shockingly loud on a peripheral port engine. It can be louder than the exhaust once you get even a moderately quiet system put together.
01-02-2011, 02:12 PM
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: California
Posts: 22,465
thats true, lots of noise out the intake! i can fire mine up without the air cleaner lid and the neighbors come out an tell me its shaking the whole house.
building the engine is really straightforward, its exactly like building a stock engine.
i run the carbon seals, i have no prior experience with them, but all the experienced people were warning me about detonation. i actually have gotten the engine to ping a little, it does the rx8 bird chirp noise, at around the same 2000-2200rpms. performance vs price they work
id run the 9.7 rotors, we know they work, no fancy machine work involved.
mine's a 12A so i set it up like the competition book, so i run about an 8" intake manifold. i did mine the same way as maxt, its ALL new parts, rotors, shaft, gears, housings, etc. i did have it balanced too.
exhaust is KEY, both for power and noise. my next step is to go to the dyno with a pipe cutter, and find the right header length, it does make a HUGE difference. next step is mufflers.
building the engine is really straightforward, its exactly like building a stock engine.
i run the carbon seals, i have no prior experience with them, but all the experienced people were warning me about detonation. i actually have gotten the engine to ping a little, it does the rx8 bird chirp noise, at around the same 2000-2200rpms. performance vs price they work
id run the 9.7 rotors, we know they work, no fancy machine work involved.
mine's a 12A so i set it up like the competition book, so i run about an 8" intake manifold. i did mine the same way as maxt, its ALL new parts, rotors, shaft, gears, housings, etc. i did have it balanced too.
exhaust is KEY, both for power and noise. my next step is to go to the dyno with a pipe cutter, and find the right header length, it does make a HUGE difference. next step is mufflers.
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