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Rotary Engine Building, Porting & Swaps All you could ever want to know about rebuilding and porting your rotary engine! Discussions also on Water, Alcohol, Etc. Injection

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Old 12-07-2010, 11:03 PM   #11
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More on the dyno subject..Something that makes me laugh, is that chassis dyno's were originally built to me bullshit breakers, with the advent of the internet to often they are bullshit makers... Every dyno manufacture claims to be accurate, but it just isn`t so, I don`t think any of them are unless it was actually calibrated scientifically before every use, which they are not..
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Old 12-07-2010, 11:56 PM   #12
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mustang dynos are very acurate.2



as far as your statment about rotaries not being competitive is bullshit , we race nationaly in E production, at the run offs this year and last and even the year before almost half of the feild where rotary powered. there are alot of gt3 cars running and winning alot with rotary, there are a good number of rotary running in gt2 aswell and winning. hell there is even a hand full running in gt1 and last year a rotary one the national at sebring.



that is not to mention the rolex series where speedsource killed it the past few years with the 3 rotor rx8 and in st there doing quiet well as well as in world challenge ect ect ect..............



also on a reginal scale ITS is dominated by second gen rx7s



the problem is not a power issue or a noise issue its a fuel consumpiton issue as we all know that these little air pumps drink alot of freaking fuel to make power. and another issue is rotary powered vehicals are only in one car wich was fazed out for a few years untill recently with the rx8 wich took alot of rule making to happen to allow the car to compeat.



every time i open a GCR i am amazed in how much weight a rotary powered road race car in any given class has to weigh as compaired to its comp.
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Old 12-08-2010, 12:40 AM   #13
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116db is almost enuff to make someones ears bleed by the way. i would hope that you are not using that car on the street and i would request your race tracks to have there sound testing equipment tested.
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Old 12-08-2010, 11:05 AM   #14
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Let's table the horsepower discussion for now and get back to the meat of my question.



What should I do to make this motor as reliable as possible? Are there specific things I need to keep in mind from a build and parts selection standpoint? Thanks!
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Old 12-08-2010, 08:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fc3sboy1 View Post
mustang dynos are very acurate.2



as far as your statment about rotaries not being competitive is bullshit , we race nationaly in E production, at the run offs this year and last and even the year before almost half of the feild where rotary powered. there are alot of gt3 cars running and winning alot with rotary, there are a good number of rotary running in gt2 aswell and winning. hell there is even a hand full running in gt1 and last year a rotary one the national at sebring.



that is not to mention the rolex series where speedsource killed it the past few years with the 3 rotor rx8 and in st there doing quiet well as well as in world challenge ect ect ect..............



also on a reginal scale ITS is dominated by second gen rx7s



the problem is not a power issue or a noise issue its a fuel consumpiton issue as we all know that these little air pumps drink alot of freaking fuel to make power. and another issue is rotary powered vehicals are only in one car wich was fazed out for a few years untill recently with the rx8 wich took alot of rule making to happen to allow the car to compeat.



every time i open a GCR i am amazed in how much weight a rotary powered road race car in any given class has to weigh as compaired to its comp.
And where did all the factory cars go and WHY??? Because they couldn't make the power and meet the noise levels of the classes with p-ports and be competitive.. Cover your ears all you want guy but its a fact.

Taking a mustang dynos ouput as gospel compared to what OEM's use is like telling me your AEM is on par with a Horiba... I don't even wholy trust what comes off of my own dyno sometimes as real power figure.. for instance, look how many people post 500+ rwhp dyno charts with single walbro pumps, yet on my dyno, not one car with a single walbro has ever had enough fuel to get past 380-400 rwhp.. Is every pump I get bad or is my dyno reading a lot less than others?

You say you can make big power with a 6port right? I'll bet its a **** load quieter than a p-port at the same power level, or at the same noise level, the 6 port will make more power than the p-port. Thats the whole deal behind the renesis, low overlap, low noise, cleaner motor, more power than previous sideport designs.

If my track ever gets noise limits, the p-port will become a door stop..







As for building it, use new style rotors with the reliefs pre-cut, if use steel seals you need to clearance them in the slots forextra gas clearance. Use a turbo oil pump run FD oil pressure regulator, baffle plate is a must.

Even if your e-shaft is new, check the runout, the newest e-shaft I had was the worst, I went through a box of them and found one that was dead straight. I have never had a need for aftermarket balancing, I use the j-spec way of making sure its balanced well enough to live, but if you have access to it, and you are using mix and match parts, probably a good plan.

As for housings, I dunno, I make my own, so I can't comment on the quality of whats out there.
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Old 12-08-2010, 09:50 PM   #16
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i will disagree with your statment about the rx8 rotor use unless you EDM or machine the apex seal groove to full depth to accept a standard seal from previous modle years. there are also some other minor things one needs to be aware of with the rx8 rotors aswell, like the squash area and the side cuts are designed for a side port motor and i read someplace and talked with great lengths with Drummand , Prather, Lemon, Gould and Riviara about differnt ports and the use of the rx8 rotor. everyone had there opion.



i also had read someplace that though the rx8 rotor is a 10/1 rotor the over all dia is slightly undersized from previous models and talked with Pineapple Rob about that for about an hour one day.



if your going to build a PP motor and have the rotor housings ported for the PP use the REW housings due to the port timming for the exhaust aswell as the material they are made with. that is if you are not going to use the FMR housings.



and maxt mazda is backing each and evey one of the reginal, national and pro level racers with the Mazdamotorsports program and Speed source has a full factory backing in the Rolex series. and about the noise , speed sources 20bpp rx8 is one of the more quieter cars on the race track and one of the best sounding at that. the damn DP cars are way louder. and then there was B&K Autosports, the guys who brought back the rotary in the ALMS wich was a wisconsin based race team , not to far from my house that ran a 20b PP in LMP2 but due to the owners lack of knolege and willingness to spend enuff time they really never went to far once Porshe brought out the Spyder car.



as for the mustang MD1100 vers any other dyno on the market that i saw at PRI in full use, the mustang was the most realistic there. and there numbers are usualy lower then any other dyno due to the load cell and weigh calcuations. if you enter in the proper weight, proper final drive of the vehical and rpm match for your pull the mustang dyno is going to give you spot on results. ever see a drag race done on a mustang dyno or a top speed run. we did both with ower race car. and the Top speed was within .01mph and the 1/4 mile time was the same as real world, et and mph. i have never been able to tune a single 255 pump on a mustang to more then 400 to 425whp where as on a non load cell dyno that same car may say over 450 to 500whp. t



and to your , nothing is better then factory numbers comment, um mazda now has not once but twice fucked that all up by first claming the 99 miata was making more power then it truly was as well as the rx8.
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Old 12-10-2010, 08:50 PM   #17
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I'm only curious about your slide throttle bodies. I am in the process of making a set for a PP motor and they are 95% complete. Are your already made, or are you buying them pre-built from someone? What are you doing for a throttle position sensor?



Info on the slide throttle woulds be great.
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Old 12-13-2010, 06:57 PM   #18
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Quote:
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I'm only curious about your slide throttle bodies. I am in the process of making a set for a PP motor and they are 95% complete. Are your already made, or are you buying them pre-built from someone? What are you doing for a throttle position sensor?



Info on the slide throttle woulds be great.


Haven't started building anything yet. Really wanted to understand PP motors first. Sorry,



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Old 12-13-2010, 08:22 PM   #19
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Hm. That's pretty different from some of the experts I've talked to on the subject. None of them have said the stock seals will track well past 8500 RPM, and none of them have said the power will drop that severely when properly muffled. I'm not expecting it to be quiet - 100dBA is not quiet.



Was hoping Mr. Hanover would weigh in on this topic, I assume his interest in aviation has had him building at least one peripheral intake motor.


Everything sounds fine so-far.



I would not use steel apex seals without a rev limiter. Real hard on the chrome in an over-rev.



I did one home made 12-A Pport and we raced with a Madeville built factory Pport engine. About 310 HP at 10,000 RPM.



Keep the EGTs under 1650 at full tilt, and it will last all year. I would use carbon apex seals. No wear at all.



If you do the RX-8 rotors have a known name shop do the apex seal grooves, as they are too shallow for regular seals.



Our side port 12-As were by Daryl Drummond.



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Old 12-13-2010, 09:00 PM   #20
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lynn i talked with drummond at the runoffs for about an hour. dude has some crazy stories from past to now. man that guy can talk a guys ear off.
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