[FCmaniac]

What is the right way to mount a 4 or 5 point harness in an FC with no roll cage? I read you shouldn't mount the shoulder straps to the hatch floor because in an accident it will pull down on your shoulders risking injury. Can you wrap them around the rear strut tower bar?

[FCmaniac]

bump, anyone?

[Rob x-7]

i guess if someone knew they could help you,
I think its mostly done to a roll bar, I guess
you could do it to the strut bar though, im sure its
not the absolute best way to do it, but what are the chances
of the strut bar ripping out in a accident

[RXTek]

Mounting to a regular run of the mill strut tower bar is a bad idea. Most are not made to take the abuse of an accident... However I ran across a company (can't remember who) who made a rear bar that was quite thick, and they advertised it as a safe mounting point for a 4 point. Keep in mind it was probably 3 times more metal then I've seen on most rear strut bars. If you made one it wouldn't be too expensive. Depending on how much you trust yourself or someone else with your life :huh: . From that company you might as well pitch in the extra cash for a good cage.

[FCmaniac]

So you are saying basically forget it unless I get a cage? I only want the harness for autocrossing. The stock seat belt sucks (and the seats) for this. I'm not doing it for safety and wouldn't use it for anything but this. I wonder if I were to get a seat too like a Sparco Sprint or something basic, if that would provide more support for the shoulder straps than the stocker. I'd like to keep both the stock belt and the harness installed at the same time if possible.

[Sinful7]

If you're only autocrossing, the strut tower bar is fine.

Get a clip-in style harness, it comes with eye-bolts that can replace the stock seatbelt mounting hardware, under the carpet where your belt attaches to the floor. Replace one of the seat bolts, or the seat belt reciever strap bolt for the inside. then the harness will clip in and outand you can just toss it in the trunk when you're not using it.

Remember, the angle of the straps are very important. You want the shoulder straps to be -10 degrees or less, and the lap straps to be as close to straight down as possible.

It WILL deform if you use it on the street and get into a wreck. It probably won't break, but it will give enough to let your body hit the windshield, steering wheel, dash, etc.

[Rob x-7]

for autocrossing im sure he knows not to bolt it to some
shitty strut bar.

[FCmaniac]

Well, I have the Corksport strut bar in the back. I don't think its shitty but its no Cusco. The thing is, the courses we run at are very wide open, the chance of a collision is really small but you never know.

I don't know what to do now. The only guy I saw so far autocrossing an FC with a harness had his bolted right to the hatch floor. I'm thinking thats too steep of an angle but maybe not if I bolt it down far back enough.

[pengaru]

just keep in mind that strut tower bars are not generally designed to experience side loads like you would be applying with the straps mounted onto them.

example: take a straw, try stretching and compressing it's long axis, without applying any other loads... it works ok.

now do the same with someone else poking and pulling at the center of the straw along an axis perpendicular to the one you are compressing and stretching on. what happens to the straw?

yep, thats what your straps will be doing when they are restraining you.


note, for the example above you will have to keep the loads low enough to not destroy the straw when simply stretching & compressing it, just observe how much less compressive and tensile load it can take when yer freind is poking & prodding lightly even.

I'd put a cage in the car or at least just weld in a bar that is beefy enough for this going across the car, most strut tower bars are relatively narrow.

[Rob x-7]

just use the stock belts or get a roll bar, roll bars
arent THAT much money.

otherwise bolting it to the strut bar
it would be more for bling bling, which I thought
was what you were going for anyhow.

[FCmaniac]

Thanks guys. No, I'm not going for the rice effect Rob. I have a hard time staying planted in my seat during autocross which makes it harder to stay focused on steering and shifting when your body is moving around. By the end of each run, my ass is planted on the door. I read at TeamFC3S and FC3S.org about the Autopower race roll bar. It looks good and is legal for SCCA and many other organizations even for some road racing. It has the optional harness mount bar. Based on everything I read, if I want to do this, I should do it right and get the Autopower or a cage. The Autopower is $350 for the FC and they build it custom for our car.

[FCmaniac]

Here's a link to the pic of this guys interior (from TeamFC3S) with the Autopower race roll bar and harness mount:

25BP

[Blink]

I'd suggest putting in a rollbar/cage before considering harnesses. Seatbelts are designed to allow you fall forward enough to save your head in case of a roll over where the roof caves in. If you were in a harness you'd be stuck upright with your head only inches from the roof. If the roof were to collapse in a case of a roll over you'd experience severe head trauma and spinal compression. doesn't sound like fun does it? :)

[FCmaniac]

I agree, if I do this I'm going to do it the right way.

[Blink]

FCmaniac, on Jan 29 2004, 08:25 PM, said:

I agree, if I do this I'm going to do it the right way.

it's only your life right :D

[pengaru]

it sounds like you have most trouble with lateral movement in your seat, perhaps simply swapping out the stock seats for some lightweight race seats with more side bolstering will prove sufficient?

[JT-Imports]

I think you got a slow responce since there is a thread about 10 threads down that talks about it.

Get some piping thats even stronger then the strut bar (since its holding your life) and fix it up for yourself or have a shop do it with some harness points

This post has been edited by JT-Imports: 29 January 2004 - 11:20 PM

[FCmaniac]

pengaru, on Jan 29 2004, 11:06 PM, said:

it sounds like you have most trouble with lateral movement in your seat, perhaps simply swapping out the stock seats for some lightweight race seats with more side bolstering will prove sufficient?

Right, thats the main issue but I don't think most of them are designed to work with stock belts. I mean the stock belt would go over top of the seat sides instead of through the holes that they put in them for harnesses. You never know, I could still roll the car autocrossing. Some of these lots are pretty bumpy. I could see myself fishtailing and rolling it. :ohmy:

I think best bet is to get a seat and a harness and use just the lap belt until I have money for a good rollbar. Actually that doesnt make any fuckin sense either because on the street I'd be screwed in a front end collision with no shoulder belt. :scratch:

[FCmaniac]

Here is the seat I am thinking about

Attached File(s)

•  sparcosprint.jpg (6.69K)
  Number of downloads: 10

[Sinful7]

Look, he doesn't need all that crap if he's solo autocrossing.
If you're ONLY using it for the autocrossing, and to prevent lateral movement by compressing yourself into the seat, then you've got the right idea with the strut bar. Chances are you'll never see loads high enough to even flex the bar, let alone bend it. Don't believe me? Go try to bend that brace. The stock FD one I could bend in half with my bare hands - that was a bad idea to mount any harnesses to.. But most solid aluminum ones should be PLENTY stout for autocrossing.

I don't understand why you guys think this is so dangerous?

[FCmaniac]

sinful7, I was looking at the bar you made and I think I could do something similar with mine. This is for autox only. It may sound ridiculous but if there was a way, I'd use both a 4 point harness and then the stock belt over that for safety. I read of an MR2 set up that way with no cage, bar, or anything special. I like the seat idea though and the one I'm looking at is only $230.

[Blink]

FCmaniac, on Jan 29 2004, 11:14 PM, said:

Here is the seat I am thinking about

I don't htink that seat would be very comfortable. it looks like it's a frame seat and not a modled one. I sat in a corbeau that was similar looking as that and it definatly wasn't very comfy.. but i guess it fixed the lateral movement issues :)

[Blink]

Sinful7, on Jan 29 2004, 11:25 PM, said:

Look, he doesn't need all that crap if he's solo autocrossing.
If you're ONLY using it for the autocrossing, and to prevent lateral movement by compressing yourself into the seat, then you've got the right idea with the strut bar. Chances are you'll never see loads high enough to even flex the bar, let alone bend it. Don't believe me? Go try to bend that brace. The stock FD one I could bend in half with my bare hands - that was a bad idea to mount any harnesses to.. But most solid aluminum ones should be PLENTY stout for autocrossing.

I don't understand why you guys think this is so dangerous?

I'm on the fact that in case of a roll over while wearin ga harness chances of being injured are greater. If the roof of the car crushes, the person has no where to go as the seat belts have enough 'give' to help keep you from getting a head trauma/spinal compression due to your head to roof contact. With a harness you're locked in the upright position through the ordeal where chances are great of such injuries occuring if such an accident were to occur on the track or off.

Despite harnesses not being the most practical thing to put on and remove, once you would wear them in your normal sloshy seat and feel how much better you have control of yoru car as you're never fighting over lateral movements while driving you'll want to wear them on & off the track hense the probabily of wearing such items while driving down a twisty road where you could be involved in an accident is greater.l

Look at the Rx-7 already.. we can't just throw an exhaust and downpipe on our cars and expect it to be over with.. you have to upgrade your fuel system start monitoring the engine more closely. Why should your safety be any different. You put a harness in yoru car you should get a roll bar.

[Sinful7]

Rollovers in themselves are a rare occurance. Considering that in a typical autocross you never leave second gear, I think your chances for a rollover type accident are slim to none. Also, considering that the driver understands that his safety will be diminished in a rollover with a harness and no bar, he *should* be more considerate of what beheviors and driving styles cause rollovers, and try to avoid them.

Has anyone here ever seen a rollover at a solo event?

Anyone that wants pointers on making a steel tube harness bar can just ask, I'll be happy to help out any way I can.

[FCmaniac]

Sinful7, on Jan 31 2004, 02:06 AM, said:

Rollovers in themselves are a rare occurance. Considering that in a typical autocross you never leave second gear, I think your chances for a rollover type accident are slim to none. Also, considering that the driver understands that his safety will be diminished in a rollover with a harness and no bar, he *should* be more considerate of what beheviors and driving styles cause rollovers, and try to avoid them.

Has anyone here ever seen a rollover at a solo event?

Anyone that wants pointers on making a steel tube harness bar can just ask, I'll be happy to help out any way I can.

What I'd like to make is a steel harness bar like yours but that connects both the stock upper belt mounting locations (on the b pillars?). I don't think any other points would be high or strong enough. What do you think?